Newbie questions - CTC 3d Printer & Pilot model

[Richard_Blackwe]

Hi - Apologies for creating a new topic, but I couldn’t find any info on this issue, i tried searching printing people, narrower things are broken, but couldn’t find anything on this subject.

I have recently purchased a CTC-3d printer from reading reviews online. I have done the following so far:

- levelled the bed perfectly

- installed the PLA tube that came with it (black)

- printed a 2cm test cube.

It all went quite well. So i thought i’d try and make my own pilot for a dc3 aircraft I am making. The pilot prints fine up to the beak of his hat. and it doesn’t print half his hat at the end.

I have used the settings in the attached image. I dont think the printer has an issue with printing something small. But it seems that its all melted at the top and the layer hasnt got enough time to cool before the next layer so its all messing up.

How do i tell the printer to slow down when the layer is small?

I have attached the actual file in a .gcode format (using “export to file” option in the Makerware settings). If anyone could help that would be swell!

The pilot head how it is supposed to be -

this is what happens: his head is messed up…

These are my settings:

Pilot Actual Size.gcode (0 Bytes)

[aurebo]

Hi Richard, I think for PLA your general heat settings are a bit too high. I usually print PLA with 190° extruder and 60° heatbed temperature. This way it cools down faster. Also very helpful can be to cool the print with a fan.

I am running the Sailfish firmware on my CTC and during the print I can manually adjust the print speed - accelerate or slow it down by any factor. This would certainly help in your case. You could just manually slow down the print speed with factor 0.5 or even less when the printer builds critical parts.

[MakeCoolThings]

Hmm, that half of the hat doesn’t look like it didn’t print, it looks melted. Lowering the temperature should help this issue. As aurebo mentioned below, 190/60 are more reasonable for PLA. (Small areas tend to get droopy/melty if the temp is too high and/or the print speed is too fast, because it doesn’t have time to dissipate the excess heat as more layers are extruded on top, and that area of the print just starts to melt as the heat builds up.)

Also, Makerware isn’t nearly as smart or flexible as you might need when issues like this arise. Once you get comfortable with your printer, you might consider Simplify3D, it’s pricy but it’s worth every penny!

(And those speeds are a lot higher than I usually run mine at! but YMMV, I suppose. Anyone else’s opinion on print speed?)

[aurebo]

Same with me, I typically run mine at max. 50 mm/s. Sometimes slow it down to 20 mm/s or less for optimum results with small parts.

[adamcooks]

Also point a fan at your print. You can install a gcode controlled fan, Redirecting to Google Groups

[Dhin]

As has been said already.Your heated bed is way too high 110 is for ABS filaments not PLA, you can actually leave the bed temperature at 0 for PLA. If you have problems with adhesion your can use the bed, but never higher than 60 degrees. PLA transfers heat really well, so the bed’s heat radiates though the print, at 110 your layers don’t have any chance to cool enough to be come rigid before the next layer is being applied, which is why it is looking they way it does. Even at 60 your prints could still be too warm from the bed as you get towards the end of your print as well. I would suggest turning the bed to 45 or 50 degrees if you need it.

Every filament is different so dialing in the right temperature for the extruder can be a bit difficult, but in general if it is stringy and droopy, then lower the temperature. If it is rough has lots of gaps in it, you should raise the temperature. Do some small test prints, 200 should where you start, adjust it by 5 degrees up or down at a time to get the temperature right (you should never have to go above 210 or below 190.)

For print speeds, I’ve found that between 50 and 70 mm/s gives me the best results with PLA. I expect that this shouldn’t vary too much based on what I see.

Finally, installing active cooling duct to your printhead really improves print quality. It helps cool the layers quicker so they become rigid and keep their shape better.

[Richard_Blackwe]

I’ve just thoroughly read your response and there’s loads of good information in there. I’ll start at a lower temperature,

ill also reduce the bed to 50. And I’m going to change the red tape that came on the bed to the blue water resistant uv resistant tape. (Not 3m). But it’s blue and has the same properties as 3m tape.

I seem to be the only person who had a ctc printer with red tape! Everyone else seems to have blue!

[Dhin]

For preparing you bed after the tape you should use a normal gluestick and apply a thin layer to the tape. This will help the adhesion of the PLA to you bed.

Travel speed can be set fairly high (like 100 or so) but the extrusion speed is the one you should keep between 50-70mm/s

[Richard_Blackwe]

Thanks for the response and help all… I’ve read all the replies and noted some things to try in the short term that in capable of doing. I’ll try the following.

1. Reduce filament heat to 190 (the last attempt was 210 and the head melted even more than the first attempt at 230!?) which doesn’t make sense. I may have got it wrong but lower seemed to be worse.

2. Reduce bed temp to 50 (been using 110). I tried a test print last night at 60 and it came unstuck. Admittedly I did a few other things differently on the time it became unstuck. I tried printing two pilots side by side. Thinking that the extra amount of travel would allow cooling.

3. Reduce the speeds what would good numbers be?

Currently using 150mm/s for travel and 90mm/s extruding I think. I’ve read that people go lower, but what should be 50 and what should be 20? 50 travel an 20 extrude speed?

ill try the above settings and see what happens and post the results . I’ll utilise the same model to keep the results consistent.!

Okay… it’s begun…with the following settings.

Printing same model at the same size to ensure consistency and be able to track progress.

Attempt 06
filename: pilot06
Extruder: 190 c
Printer Bed: 50 c - With Wickes Heavy duty masking tape (interior and exterior)
Speed while travelling: 100mm/s
Extruding speed: 40mm/s.
Room temp: 15.3 C.

Will post results. It will probably take about 2-3 hours.

[Richard_Blackwe]

Updating the firmware is definitely something I will do to control speed. I have seen guides on how to do this, but doesnt look that easy. So will do the straightforward things to start. Inevitably i’m sure i’ll end up updating the firmware to the SailFish.

I’ll also do as you say and add a fan. Ive seen a few different types of fans, it seems some people put perspex sides on the box and a big fan on the side, and some add another fan near the extruder head. this sounds a bit tricky but as i get more prints under my belt i’ll probably do this mod as well!

[Eduardo_Garcia]

Apart from all the good adivse you have gotten, to improve maker-ware download prof-tweak from nothing lab. It provides substantially more tuneability, its free. I used it for about 4 month, got comfortable with the printer and was getting very good prints until i wanted the versatilty of s3d for its support. In thingiverse i put a ctc nozzle calibration which really helped me tweak my nozzle with proftweak. Good luck

[Richard_Blackwe]

Okay - So here is attempt 6 results with the following parameters:

Attempt 06
filename: pilot06
Extruder: 190 c
Printer Bed: 50 c - With Wickes Heavy duty masking tape (interior and exterior)
Speed while travelling: 100mm/s
Extruding speed: 40mm/s.
Room temp: 15.3 C.

It all seemed to be going well, It adhered to the tape very well. the Top of the hat came out much better than before. But half his face and right shoulder are missing with the above settings… pictures below:

So I thought id adjust some settings and try again…Here is what ill be changing (in bold)

Attempt 7
filename: pilot 07
Extruder: 190 c
Printe Bed: 40 c
Speed while travelling: 100mm/s
Extruding speed: 20mm/s.
Room temp: 18.5 C

I wonder why the hat turned out better, but the face turned out worse. I’ll post results of attempt 7 when I get them.

hmmmm (confused :-/)

[Dhin]

I don’t think you need to slow it down more than 40mm/s, but if if works it works… the side still looks like a heat problem so try turning off the bed heat all together and see how that turns out.

2 suggestions to try. First try rotating it in the y axis so the face is opposite where the right side is now, it could be that the right side is being exposed to more heat or there is more airflow across the left side. Second, try slicing is along the middle and print it as two halves. This could help since they won’t print so high and change the slice direction some.

[3Dscaleworks]

try to make two parts that you position with, lets say 50 mmseparation. Resolution high temp at 195 /210 and enhance your cooling. It seems the hat needs support at the front side also, you standard speed

happy printing

[Richard_Blackwe]

Results from attempt 7 - settings below for reference…

Attempt 7
filename: pilot 07
Extruder: 190 c
Printe Bed: 40 c
Speed while travelling: 100mm/s
Extruding speed: 20mm/s.
Room temp: 18.5 C

It was probably the worst print so far. The body was brittle and there were holes in the model and the lines were quite visible and it didn’t look like it stuck together very well. The head snapped off very easily and the body is brittle and came apart in layers. Whilst the peak of his cap came out very well. the face has no detail and didnt work at all.

If I compare the above settings to the first time i tried to print this model (default ABS settings. 1110 bed temp, 230 extruder temp, 150mm/s travel speed, 90mm/s extruder speed). The ABS settings gave a much better result, by no means perfect, but a lot stronger.

Not sure what to try now. From reading the responses I guess this printer needs modification before something usable is created. I’m going to try one last time to print the pilot before I give up!

Attempt 8 - 2 pilots, 50mm apart
filename: pilot 08
Extruder: 205 c
Printer Bed: 40 c
Speed while travelling: 100mm/s
Extruding speed: 20mm/s.
Room temp: 18.5 C

Not expecting miracles. I did purchase this printer knowing it needs serious modifications before you can get anything usable. But was hoping something half decent would be possible with adding fans and buying Simplify 3D, updating firmware etc…

[Richard_Blackwe]

Hi Eduardo, I downloaded the software, it seems it is a profile editor. I believe I can use notepad to edit the editing. would simplify 3d automatically be able to print the pilot head? does it know to slow down when it gets to smaller areas?

[Richard_Blackwe]

Hi Adam, thanks for the info, I looked at the Google page and it seems that this mod requires you to solder onto a motherboard. With my limited soldering skills this looks a bit tricky.

So i did a bit of research and found a 3d printable Fan mount that mounts to the carriage. However in order to print this fan mount you need a printer wiht cooling! seems like a bit of a catch 22.

Do yo uknow of anywhere I can simply buy the ducts and bits to get extra cooling? Or should I just buy one of these desk fans and point it at the printer?

Cheers, R

[Eduardo_Garcia]

If you want to use notepad, go ahead, but proftweak is simple and easier to use in my opinion. S3d will not do anything automatically, you still have to tell it to slow down and by how much depending on the time it takes per later, you can customize support for just the hat if you want and you can vary the temperature layer by layer on both the nozzle and the heated bed. It’s not a software that you can just click and go though, I took me some time to understand the parameters and what to change and tune to get great prints.

[Richard_Blackwe]

Got ya, I may hold off on s3d for a bit until Ive got to grips with the printer. and got more cooling. Attempt 8 isnt going that well. It seems the back left hand side (Pilots right shoulder) is the bit that is always failing. so far on both pilots that are printing simultaneously the back left parts of the shoulders have holes in them. I wonder why that is? There is no overhang. The part is symmetrical and the Pilots left shoulder is fine.

Doesn’t seem to make logical sense to me…!

[adamcooks]

You’re pointing a house fan at you printer? I hope the real take away here is that no setting will ever overcome a physical hardware (lack of cooling) condition.