Go to homepage
3D Printing
3D Printing Service
FDM SLA/DLP SLS MJF DMLS/SLM Material Jetting
CNC Machining
CNC Machining Service
CNC Milling CNC Turning Surface Finishing Part Marking
Injection Molding
Sheet Metal Fabrication
Resources
3D Printing Guide CNC Machining Guide Injection Molding Guide Metal 3D Printing Guide Knowledge Base Webinars Help Center
Get instant quote
Feb 2016
21 / 29
Feb 2016
Feb 2016
3dprintwiz
Feb '16

thinwall print issues.png
thinwall print issues.png1803×453 919 KB

I am trying to print this thin wall object vertically from print bed. As you can see from the image it has a bulging part. This happens halfway midprint. My settings are as follows. By the way I do not have any first layer warping issues with this one, only problem is the bulging or bowing part.

Material : ESUN ABS+

Extruder Temp : 225C

HBP Temp : 110C

Speed : 60 mms

Tried Turning on a fan in front of it, and it just cracked. So I need your help guys, please. Thanks is advance.

  • created

    Feb '16

  • last reply

    Feb '16
  • 28

    replies

  • 6.8k

    views

  • 13

    users

  • 1

    link

DesignGuyJared
Feb '16

I don’t typically print in ABS but you usually don’t want to cool ABS while printing. You want keep that environment as warm as possible and let it cool over time. Do you have an enclosure on your machine or is it in open air?

JohnnyVF
Feb '16

Try slowing print speed down to 40mms.

Also so that bed temp seems a bit high. I print at 100C.

How do do you like the ABS+? I was thinking about buying some.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

Yes I do have an enclosure, but I opened the enclosure as soon as I saw that bowing effect, thinking that my chamber was too hot. It is a very thin walled object, actually two peremiters thick only, and without infill. Do you think I should go hotter on my extruder temp or cooler? Thanks for your response by the way.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I print at 110C because I am using glass with FFCP blue sticker, but do you think I should go lower on my heatbed? Do you think the heatbed is causing the material to bow like that? I really hope you can help me out on this. Thanks.

As for ABS +, I was surprise that it did not warp on the edges at the bed, but sad when I saw it bow. I think, it is ok for large flat objects, It is definitely better than the ESUN original filaments though.

iTech3DP
Feb '16

This happens to me all the time with ABS or ABS +. I personally have resorted to making a custom support structure to reinforce the area that I remove later, might take a bit more time to print but it helps to avoid bulging, in most cases.

PalmersPursuit
Feb '16

S3d has a feature called “ooze shield” for dual extruders… I use this feature to build a wall around ABS part for insulation. The heat remains between the ooze wall and the part. Yes, this works for single extruders. Printing With Multiple Extruders | Simplify3D Software 6

I suspect that those 3 grooves are your issue, As the part cools, those grooves widen out and push out on the wall. Try adding a few more grooves where the bow is, Thus the part is even down the entire length.

If more groves are not an option… Add small beams across the grooves and cut them out when done. The small beams will keep the grooves from expanding/shrinking.
G-Code-Preview-300x224.png

Mark_Walker
Feb '16

This may not be avoidable given the current state of the art. There are recent threads on the topic from 3d printing luminaries in the Google Plus group. Tall thin walls apparently often end up with long period waves even with PLA and well tuned printers. They seemed stumped, so if you figure it out, please share what solved it for you.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I was wondering if you could show me an image on how that is done, just an example for me to follow on. By the way thanks for the idea.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I never thought of that analysis, regarding the grooves. I could not add or remove the grooves since it is a design from a client of mine. I’ll try that beam method, but can you show me an image example maybe on how it would look with beams. Thank you very much by the way.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I’m almost giving up at this moment regarding using abs, and I’m about to resort to using PLA. Do you think PLA has a better chance of surviving this print? Thank you for your response.

iTech3DP
Feb '16

The method I use is very simple, just add thickness to the piece by copying and extruding extra walls. In the picture I choose to print flat because heat dissipation through the print is not bad at all and this method inherently avoids warping (at least it works for me). However, if you have no choice but to print vertically, simply add some extra to the center without connecting. I have a 0.1mm gap between my piece and the added support walls, they sometimes stick together but break away easily at the end. Hope that helps.

Aero Editing in Sketchup.PNG
Aero Editing in Sketchup.PNG1920×1043 92.9 KB
Aero piece flat.PNG
Aero piece flat.PNG1920×1040 180 KB
Standing 34 mm Aero piece.PNG
Standing 34 mm Aero piece.PNG1917×1044 157 KB

RCole
Feb '16

Let it bow. Fix it after. See the article about fixing warped prints using a frying pan and hair dryer.

If you decide to use PLA, you can adjust the plastic with hot water, too.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

Thank you very much for showing me an image, a photo is really worth a thousand words. If it works then, you have saved me from a lot of headache, if it doesn’t then It is better to have tried to learn than not tried at all. Thank you once again.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I’ll see if I can implement this as well, Just don’t know how to remove them supports after. Are those supports really sticking to the design itself? Thanks for the image.

PalmersPursuit
Feb '16

Its a rough sketch… Make them as wide as your nozzle diameter, and line them up so they are easy to cut with a razor blade. Since it a relatively straight edge, It should be easy to cut… I prefer flush cut PCB pliers over a razor blade.

Oh and… measure your grooves at the top, middle and bottom to confirm if that is the issue.
0032178-11.jpg pACE3-5430258enh-z7.jpg

beaumoa
Feb '16

If your print settings are as i suspect the solution is simple, I print thin wall stuff all the time down to 0.8 mm, your print settings should be no finer than 0.2 layer height and set the print speed to a fast setting usually the problem is too much heat build up in the print

Alan

karlzhao314
Feb '16

It’s extremely hard to get your chamber “too hot” for ABS. Stratasys FDM machines turn out excellent prints with ABS and have their chamber temperatures set at 70C to 90C; indeed, the fact that it can heat the chamber to those temperatures are a major part of the reason that they’re able to do so well.

As someone else has already said, it may not be avoidable given the current state of consumer machines. I would try adjusting both the extruder and the bed temperature, but which way I can’t tell you; just try to find whatever works best for you.

legreatmagnet
Feb '16

Hmmm, Ive had good luck printing a thin wall object about 5 inches tall. I have a FFCP with an active cooling duct i found on thingiverese. Now I know everyone says “DON’T USE A FAN FOR ABS” but I’ve found it improves my print quality significantly. Is what I do is run the extruders at 230, the bed at 110 for the first layer, second layer switch the bed to 100. I’ve found having the bed hotter than that after the first few layers make thin wall parts warp. The fan kicks on at layer 2 at only 20% then at layer three i bump it to 60%. (you might need to change the amount of airflow and when the fan kicks on and off, i was printing at a .3mm layer height) I think the fan is helpful as long as is pulling in already heated air. If you shoot cold air it will warp for sure. My bed setup is a little different than your as well. I use a 5mm piece of glass with kapton and a LIGHT coating of abs slurry. Also, with the fan and ABS the bridging capability is MUCH improved. Im not sure what slicer you are using, but I’ve ben using simplify3d, and love the options they have for cooling control, when you bridge you can have it kick up the speed of the fan, very nice option IMO.

legreatmagnet
Feb '16

Also, I might add that you may want to try printing it slower as to allow each layer more time to cool.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

I was always confuse on which is the right way to cool, when to cool during print. Ok I will be making an airduct for an extra fun I have. Can you show me the thin wall print that you did, just wanted to know if it is my geometry that is also the problem, coz one of the guys have mentioned that the grooves of my object may be causing the warping. Thanks so much for your input.

Travismorrey
Feb '16

Options slow your print speed. Try adding an over hang at the top of the print at the bending apex. Then set support structure in place. This may help reduce or eliminate the bending. Then cut the over hang and support away.

3dprintwiz
Feb '16

Hi guys, I finally decided to print this thing with ESUN PLA black, with a large room fan blowing on the object, and it work perfectly. Though, I would have loved to print it with ABS, but since I was on a deadline with my client I guess its the wisest thing to do. Anyway thank you for all your help, I will print this thing in ABS with all your advise in mind, as soon as I have time. Why? Coz, I am a guy just don’t want giving up. Once again thanks.

MOARobotics
Feb '16

To me this appears to be a similar issue to when prints cave in on the sides to me. You said you added a cooling fan, which is a good idea to help the layers at least solidify. However if you cool the print too much it will crack just like you experienced. I would turn the cooling fan on to a lower speed and try the print in ABS again. I know you said you got the print to your client already, but for future trials it may not be a bad thing to try :slight_smile: