New Shipping Options

[Brian]

Hi Pete,

Just wanted to let you know that we’re working on a fix that will allow you to choose between ‘Flat rate’ and ‘Price per Order’. We’ll try to get it built tomorrow, that should allow us to still launch this early July, and learn from customers and Hubs working with the new service. In this way customers can see what shipping services you offer, without you having to predict the price beforehand.

I would still like to chat with you tomorrow, if you’ve got time as I think we indeed have rushed this shipping feature with too little US focus and learning from your experiences will help us make it better.

Best,

Brian

ps. no harm done on my side, better to speak up and be heard than let a issue linger on… hope we’re on track to fixing it with the above change

[Brian]

Hi Perry,

We’re going to add a 3rd option tomorrow that allow you to “Price per Order”, instead of the flat rate or free shipping. That basically allows all Hubs in the US to keep using the ‘legacy’ shipping but still provide more info about what shipping services/delivery times they offer.

Hope that is helpful, as this thread hopefully shows we do listen (although we should have consulted more US hubs upfront) and will make rapid iterations to the feature before it goes live.

Best,

Brian

[SOC3D]

The impression I’m getting from 3D hubs responses thus far is that because they are not an American company and the shipping issue for some reason primarily affects the US, they don’t seem to care at this point.

There is around 10K worth of development work required to build a P2P 3D printing service which would care about and cater to US based hubs. It would really take under 100K up front to get netfabb, cura or simplify, real time shipping, per hub profiles for material type, pricing that makes sense and advertising. If you didn’t waste money on full time lazy devs you could hit 10-20K a month in expenses for the first year.

Making a more sensible pricing model which offers per print fees or monthly volume fees would also draw in more customers who don’t like the massive flat rate surcharge.

I won’t be at all surprised when one of the Anti-US forced options causes new competitors to spring up to fill the void US hubs and customers now have.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see several US states ban or file suit against 3D hubs over the whole “we collect VAT but not sales tax” issue that could be looming out there.

Hubs are volunteering their time, knowledge, expertise and advice on how to not turn this for profit system into a disaster. So far just looking through this and a few other threads there is a lot of insults and undermining of those hubs from 3D hubs support and admins.

All of this may come off as offensive or direct. I see no reason to beat around the bush here.

Many of us have managed, run, developed or created much larger platforms without running into these issues and many would charge consulting fees in the 5-6 figure range monthly for the kind of free advice being offered to 3D hubs for free and not being well received.

[Perry_1]

This is a terrible idea for US customers, and completely unworkable.

Right now, I calculate the weight and package size, and that is what the customer pays.

It is impossible to offer a standard rate. Impossible by region, zip code, state. Just impossible.

A 4 oz print is a different shipping price than a 5 oz print. A print sent to a house a few blocks from another house can be a different price.

There is no way to do this fairly to the customer or the hub.

This leaves two options

1.free shipping, which means changing the pricing of my hub, which is perfectly honed, and I do not want to do, and screws with my margin in a possibly terrible way.

2. flat rate shipping, which is unfair to me and the customer. Flat rate shipping caclulations in the US ALWAYS is more expensive than calculated shipping based on package and pricing.

This is truly a horrible idea to put forth in the US. Now not only am I trying to offer profitable services in a competitive market, I now have to start dealing with shipping charges on quoting, NONE OF WHICH will be correct when quoted.

I want to print things, charge for the printing, and have the customer pay for the shipping.

Now, I am dealing with how to price shipping into a quote. Ridiculous.

I understand you have received input from customers. But what customers? I run the hub, I am your customer.

You are confused if you think the person ordering the print is your customer. They are my customer.

You say “Finally, we would like to stress that this is by no means the final shipping feature, but the starting point to make ordering a 3D Print a better experience, by creating more clarity about what a customer can expect from different Hubs that are available.”

I recommend you do not put it up, until it is the final version, a version that works for all your countries.

“Hi, I’m quite surprised at how violent this thread turned out to be. As I see it, the new update is not an insult but a step forward to a clear pricing in which the client is in control and knows from the beginning what to expect from each Hub.”— In the US, the pricing for shipping that is quoted will not be the price the customer ends up paying, unless I either overcharge the customer for their shipping based on the quoted shipping, or take a bite out of my thin margin when the shipping is quoted and is less than what it ultimately costs.

If you don’t set up shipping options your Hub will not be shown to non-local customers. — Please define non-local.

[Perry_1]

Thanks, it does show that.

[garthvh]

What shipping service are you using? I don’t get how you can have a $6 part with shipping ranging from $1-12. I use first class mail for 90% of my orders and postage is less than $3 to almost anywhere in the country for items less than $20.

[Brian]

Thanks!

[PeterMake]

You must be printing parts that fit in an envelop and are under 13 oz.

I usually ship priority mail.

But all this is a mote point as you yourself said that your shipping could be as high as $20.00.

[PeterMake]

Brian, if I were you I would not bother with putting in states or regions, etc.

It does not solve the issues.

Perhaps a warning to the customer that the shipping quote is that, only a estimated quote and the hub may lower or raise the shipping quote based on actual shipping costs.

I sincerely believe this would be the only solution at this time.

Peter

[garthvh]

How big can this $6 part be The only order I have ever shipped with $20 shipping was going to Canada where 1oz costs $10. My highest shipping cost in the US after more than a hundred shipped orders was $12 for priority mail and that was a $600 order that used an entire spool of filament. I charge $3 for most orders and fanatically track everything and am generally a few cents in the black on shipping costs (postage, padded envelope and thermal label) overall.

One of the big benefits of selling 3D printed parts is that they are light and you can offer low priced shipping to overcome the objections US consumers have to paying for shipping. You are also the manufacturer and can self insure pretty easily. Buy more sizes of padded envelopes, most parts go in the 6x9, but I have two larger sizes for other stuff that does not fit in the smaller one. At 25-35 cents each in low quantities they really cut down your shipping costs compared to boxes unless you are shipping truly massive volumes (You have a 40% or greater UPS discount).

You probably need to look at lower price postage options like first class for $6 prints, you are wasting a lot of money using priority mail for inexpensive items to maybe get it to the customer a single day faster. I can ship you an 8oz part from Seattle to Miami for $3.40, I can’t think of a part under $30 I couldn’t ship in a padded envelope first class.

[keebie81]

I would never mail a part in a padded envelope. I use small boxes from uline. Most fit in a 4x4x4 box. Part of my shipping cost is also to pay for the box, bubblewrap, and the label.

Most items can ship first class. But once in a while it needs to be priority or ups due to size of the parts or padding needed.

[garthvh]

Don’t be afraid of the padded envelope there is really no safety advantage to the box, in many automated facilities they are treated more harshly. I worked in logistics for almost 10 years and we tracked it, the only reason to use a box if you have a choice is to comply with insurance rules for dead space which a 4x4x4 is not going to meet anyways. Packing boxes is also much more labor intensive.

[Perry_1]

I have a hub close to me that sells only on price. The prints are not so good, but they sell on price alone. They also do not do the standard 20% infill.

This keeps my pricing low, because I have to be competitive. So I sometimes do parts where my margin is a buck or two.

If I have to eat a half a dollar or a dollar because of a flat rate shipping situation, that hurts. So yeah, I am really not interested in offering a flat price for shipping. It will hurt my profits.

Also, this competitor charges $2.50 for shipping on all items. My average shipping cost is over $3.00.

So with the new proposed model, I am now competing on shipping costs as well as price of the model, further eroding my margins. In countries where shipping is standard pricing, I see how it would work. Or if an API determines the pricing, then yea, it would work.

But, if a prospective customer looks at the price, and now the shipping, in the quote, I am now really getting squeezed. Not only by the bad competitor, but by 3dhubs shipping mechanism.

I just ran some simple tests on stamps.com, which is where I get postage quotes. A change in a few ounces and two zip codes over changes the price of a package sometimes pretty noticeably! Try it out.

[twiesner]

Would it be possible to update the customer’s shipping if they select the wrong option? I offer three shipping options listed on my hub page; Standard shipping if the order fits within a 5" x 3" x 3" dimension and under 13 oz, Priority Mail for orders under 13 oz and any dimension, and Priority Mail for orders over 14 oz and any dimension. So shipping prices can vary from $3.80 to $13.45 depending on weight.

Though what 3d Hubs is proposing for shipping profiles is fine by me as I only offer 3 options, my main concern would be updating shipping for the customer if needed. Is this going to be doable on my end or would I have to contact 3dhubs to update the order? Since there is no weight calculation on 3dhubs for the order, how is the customer suppose to know what shipping option of mine to select? What is to stop the customer from automatically choosing my $3.80 option no matter the size and weight for the order? After reviewing a order is when I know the exact weight of the to be printed design(s) as Simplify3d outputs a weight calculation when it slices the design(s). The software has been very accurate about weight of the final printed order and I this is what I use to determine best shipping for customers on and off 3dhubs before printing.

[Brian]

Hey Perry,

Thanks for explaining your process and details of US shipping systems, in response we’ve just released another update to the shipping feature. Which allows you to continue to use the old ‘per order’ pricing in combination with the new options. So we’re no longer requiring you to set Flat Rate shipping.

Let me know what you think of the latest version.

Brian

[Perry_1]

Yes, this looks perfect. Thanks for listening!!! Now I don’t have to ask the customer every time if they need overnight shipping, and I can charge the customer the exact price, without overcharging the customer or losing margin.

Thanks so much!!!

[Left]

@Luuk For some reason, I can’t fill in the form. It doesn’t recognise the country

[Luuk]

Hey, what country are you trying to list? Some countries we unfortunately cannot ship to/do business with.

[Left]

Just Belgium,

Its weird, cause i would expect when i enter “B” the posibilities show up.

[Luuk]

Hey, i’ve set up a test shipping option that listed Belgium for you. Can you check if it shows for you?