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Jul 2016

Hi Pete,

Indeed the biggest challenges seem to be in the US. We’re adding States to the regions right now, so at least you’ll be able to set a estimated price per state so a bit more granular than just on country level.

You can also use the description field to manage the customer expectation, I think that will be very useful in preventing disappointed customers, we’ll make sure to show it to customers in the checkout.

At the same time we’re looking at estimating weight for prints, but that might take some time as we have hundreds of materials in the DB and we would have to estimate packaging materials somehow as well. At the same time predicting parcel size based on print dimensions is going to be tricky and fairly inaccurate as well. If you have time tomorrow it would be great if you can join the call with Jatmn so we can discuss these challenges, I’ll send you the invite so I can hear your ideas.

Brian

Hi Christophe and others,

Not angry, but frustrated, frustrated that no one at 3D hubs consulted with any of us first before bring on these changes.

I run a hub for profit, it is not a hobby to me.

I have an inpectable reputation with my customers.

I have a profitable hub with many satisfied customers.

I offer a good service and produce excellent 3D printed parts and models.

I try to keep my prices just and fair.

I pay my share of profits to 3D Hubs.

I do all of this with my own hard work.

I will not apologize that I am a frustrated that 3D Hubs is putting a burden on my business with new shipping methods without what I believe, is a full understanding how shipping works where I operate my hub.

The United States and Canada are large countries and trying to determine shipping cost by location is a nightmare.

Most of this is due to the fact that package size, package weight and destination MUST be all determined in order to ship.

The shipping costs could vary greatly because something might weight an ounce more, or the package is a ½ inch wider or even if a package is going to a different zip code within the same city.

It is so difficult to calculate shipping costs that even most APIs used in eCommerce don’t often get it right. It is one of the largest complaints that online stores have with their shopping cart providers, that real time shipping estimates are either not offered or not accurate. Take Shopify for instance, they only offer real time rates if you pay a premium, however, they don’t include the package size as one of the parameters so it is useless because every rate they quote is incorrect so most Shopify store use a third party API instead.

The other issue is that Americans have become very sensitive about shipping costs. The shipping rates in this country keep on going up and up to the point where smaller stores cannot compete with a company like Amazon with it’s vast resources and customer base because they are able to negotiate lower rates with their shippers such at FedEx, UPS and even the USPS. Also they have their own delivery people in large metro areas.

If real time rates are not available most online merchants will try to come up with an average shipping rate perhaps based on region.

This means that you will be losing money on some shipments and over charging customers on others. Brian has said that you could always adjust the shipping costs afterwards, but again, it has been my experience that if a customer thinks that you are trying to inflate shipping costs they will perceive you as a dishonest merchant and won’t even give you the chance to make the adjustment and shop elsewhere.

And most merchants will agree that Flat Rate Shipping or Shipping by Region is a LAST RESORT.

In fact there have been studies done that say customers would rather pay higher product prices than pay for shipping. This is all well and good but this type of pricing model will not work with the services that we sell on 3D Hubs and keep in mine that what we do sell is a service not products per say.

I envy you that you have a much simpler shipping costs approach and still maintain profitability.

What do you do if a $6.00 printed part could cost anywhere from $1.00 to $12.00 to ship depending on location?

Brian said that perhaps we could offer Free Shipping. Free Shipping would only work if you inflate the prices to the extreme for your services and than only if other the hubs also up their prices. You have to be very careful or all your hard work in the past building up your business could go down the drain very quickly.

3D Hubs was designed for the Euro Market and understandable so.

I understand and respect that.

However, there are now so many hubs in North America that perhaps 3D Hubs should think a North American version of the 3D Hubs more in tune with the way business is done in North America.

Certainly eBay does this, they have different eBays for different parts of the world and there is a reason for this.

After all we don’t have VAT here and 3D hubs has not may it easy for our State by State, County by County, Zip Code by Zip Code Sales Tax system that we have to use. In fact we have to do our own calculations for sales tax and add it to the order as an after thought. And certainly hubs in other parts of the world do not understand and could care less about the U.S sales tax system as I personally do not understand the VAT system.

So I say this to all my friends in the European Market, please have a little apathy for us here in the States.

We fear that our hubs might be in jeopardy due to a change that was never talked about until a few weeks prior to implementation.
We are concerned that we will lose profit and have to abandon our hubs and we do not want to do that.

I am sure that 3D Hubs will do their best to try to accommodate hubs in places where shipping has a vast number of variables like in the U.S. so I will no longer speak about this topic again unless 3D hubs has any questions they might want to ask of me.

If I have cause anyone to feel hurt or insulted then I do sincerely apologize, please this was not my intent, it was just the frustration coming out from the fear of the impact on my hub.

Sincerely,

Peter Zacarelli

You must be printing parts that fit in an envelop and are under 13 oz.

I usually ship priority mail.

But all this is a mote point as you yourself said that your shipping could be as high as $20.00.

Brian, if I were you I would not bother with putting in states or regions, etc.

It does not solve the issues.

Perhaps a warning to the customer that the shipping quote is that, only a estimated quote and the hub may lower or raise the shipping quote based on actual shipping costs.

I sincerely believe this would be the only solution at this time.

Peter

How big can this $6 part be :slight_smile: The only order I have ever shipped with $20 shipping was going to Canada where 1oz costs $10. My highest shipping cost in the US after more than a hundred shipped orders was $12 for priority mail and that was a $600 order that used an entire spool of filament. I charge $3 for most orders and fanatically track everything and am generally a few cents in the black on shipping costs (postage, padded envelope and thermal label) overall.

One of the big benefits of selling 3D printed parts is that they are light and you can offer low priced shipping to overcome the objections US consumers have to paying for shipping. You are also the manufacturer and can self insure pretty easily. Buy more sizes of padded envelopes, most parts go in the 6x9, but I have two larger sizes for other stuff that does not fit in the smaller one. At 25-35 cents each in low quantities they really cut down your shipping costs compared to boxes unless you are shipping truly massive volumes (You have a 40% or greater UPS discount).

You probably need to look at lower price postage options like first class for $6 prints, you are wasting a lot of money using priority mail for inexpensive items to maybe get it to the customer a single day faster. I can ship you an 8oz part from Seattle to Miami for $3.40, I can’t think of a part under $30 I couldn’t ship in a padded envelope first class.

I would never mail a part in a padded envelope. I use small boxes from uline. Most fit in a 4x4x4 box. Part of my shipping cost is also to pay for the box, bubblewrap, and the label.

Most items can ship first class. But once in a while it needs to be priority or ups due to size of the parts or padding needed.

Don’t be afraid of the padded envelope there is really no safety advantage to the box, in many automated facilities they are treated more harshly. I worked in logistics for almost 10 years and we tracked it, the only reason to use a box if you have a choice is to comply with insurance rules for dead space which a 4x4x4 is not going to meet anyways. Packing boxes is also much more labor intensive.

@Luuk For some reason, I can’t fill in the form. It doesn’t recognise the country

Hey, what country are you trying to list? Some countries we unfortunately cannot ship to/do business with.

Just Belgium,

Its weird, cause i would expect when i enter “B” the posibilities show up.

Hey, i’ve set up a test shipping option that listed Belgium for you. Can you check if it shows for you?

Hey, and what about any other country? Can you list those? Perhaps you could try using a different browser? I use Google Chrome. I also see the shipping I listed on your account. See attachment.

@Luuk

Actually, I can’t see your entry, Also I cannot list other countries and nether in a different browser. Tested chrome,firefox and internet explorer. Weird. I do not have special settings of anything I am aware of that can cause any troubles

Let’s take the discussion offline. I’ll email you.

I have the exact same problem with ‘France’ or ‘Europe’. I also tried to fill in with North-america and does not get listing either. The form does not allow me to save anything. Please Help!

Note: I tried with Chrome and Firefox and deactivated all adaware plugins.

8 days later

I set up my shipping with the “per order” option, and I stopped showing shipping as an option. I switched it back to the legacy option, and I still don’t show as offering shipping.

I just switched it back to legacy. Perhaps there was a propagation delay for the setting. Thank you for checking for me.

Previously I had set up the new style shipping as soon as we were notified. This morning it still wasn’t showing that I offered shipping.

Hi Shaun,

We’ve seen this happen some times when the back-end call to save the options gets interrupted, it talks to the old part of our website so it takes a bit longer.

Glad to see you managed to figure it out, I just checked and you showed up for shipping.

Brian

Hello everyone,

i think the new delivery options are great!

After my first few deliveries, i figured out a standard pricing system anyway, in order to quickly tell the customer what the total cost will be.

This way my customer will get this information right away in the order process.

In the end it always has to be some kind of estimate. If you aim to low, you wont make profit. If you aim too high the customer will feel tricked.

This way the customer knows up front what to expect. I think it makes things easier and especially faster. In this business time is Money.

best regards

Anreas

8 days later

Just from experience, Canada post wanted 9$ for a particular part and box to be shipped to the US but it was just before the potential strike so my usual postal lady advised I go elsewhere. I ended up shopping UPS who wanted 96$ for next day shipping, 87$ for two day and 68$ for three day. The cheapest I got was 32$ for seven day. Mind you this was a 200g part in a 12CMx12CMx12CM box. Shipping rates are all over the place anymore. A flat rate in my opinion is an awful idea.

A tip: I’ve read that padded envelopes are sometimes better to ship in than a small box, as they take less of a beating due to how they are handled.

Your box was on the larger end, but keep that in mind for the future.

Also: Purolator was a bit less than UPS, last I looked. Did you check them out?

No that day purolator was closed and they were my only option. Also, that box was by no means large, it literally fit in the palm of your hands. I can understand if the box was like a foot by a foot and weighed 10lbs that they would charge that much. But something as small as that was outrageously priced