I have a question about this one, how is 3D Hubs in any way ever financially responsible? If a print is rejected, it’s the hub that takes the hit not 3D Hubs. Until they pay out money, they have (In the majority of cases) Put literally 0 time and 0 effort into that particular order. Everything on their end has been automated. One order going bad in no way affects them financially, or at least in any way measurable.
Please critique this if you disagree, or if anyone does. I’d like to hear from other points of view.
Ah, ok thanks for the info. I did not know that, but I suppose it doesn’t matter much anyway seeing as I’m not going to print orders better suited for someone else anyway. Definitely not a good way to foster improved print quality though.
I will be on the call.
But I ask 3dhubs and the hubs to continue the discussion in the open here as well, as will I.
Everyone here deserves to have their voices heard on this, as they are directly affected because the change is still up. Perhaps some others from 3dhubs can help with the discussion here.
I would encourage you to do the call sooner. A week is a long time in internet time. Google has this already. I would think you would want to head off some bad headlines that inevitably are coming on the 3dprint news sites and forums.
You don’t want to see headlines like “3dhubs redefines 3d printing as low quality prototypes” or “3dhubs decides their primary business is now low-tolerance prototype materials.” Or worse headlines, which I am NOT going to post here.
That’s not cool at all. Is it time to check out other options? I’ve been here for 3 years and I would hate to leave, but what can we do?
You make an excellent point that I had missed. This wording is incorrect. My FDM printers can actually guarantee much better.
It really should say 3dhubs can only guarantee a certain tolerance. What it really should say is something positive, like “3dhubs guarantees a maximum tolerance of +/- etc.” which is much more positive.
I think you understand the wording just fine, but probably not the reasoning. 3dhubs is trying to move customers from FDM hubs to higher margin printers. They made several changes to the site to do this, including the tolerances wording, a “let me help you choose a material” when a customer arrives, a “let me recommend a higher quality print” when the customer goes to complete the order, and labeling FDM printing as prototype quality with prototype material. This was done in secret, without asking us about it, warning us, or getting feedback prior to the print. They are doing this even to repeat customers. Their history on this, and their response in this thread would indicate that this is going to be the policy, regardless of what we say.
I agree that this wording is totally wrong. It’s both misleading and just flat out false. That’s not the highest quality FDM machines can guarantee, it’s what 3D Hubs is guaranteeing. I’m really starting to dislike this relationship of words being put into our mouths.
I like the automated messages system, but I don’t like that we still don’t have an option to change or set exactly what we want the messages to say. (Referring to the automated messages that post when a new order is requested). That’s just another example of tools that I think we should have at our disposal, but despite that being brought up several months ago (Right when that feature, another thing left unspoken between hubs, came promptly out).
This was caught by a hub, where a customer from the their personal website pushed the order to 3d hubs, the customer was shown the tolerances warning, and then they showed the customer how they could get a better print in SLS and SLA from another hub. Because this was unconscionable, once this came to light, 3dhubs removed it.
However, I asked if this was also removed when a repeat customer, who we have earned the right to keep, comes to the hub. This has not been answered.
DONT LEAVE. POST YOUR POSITION, perhaps with something more descriptive or even stronger than “thats not cool at all”! It is important to be heard.
What can you do? Well, if they dont fix it, there will be a vacuum formed in the industry, because nothing opens the door to competition like ruining your brand and hurting your base.
I’ve seen no increase in SLA orders either though; honestly orders have been (way) down since late January across all my printers. Usually I get at least a few orders per week on the Form, but I’ve seen that many in the past month. My placement in the rankings has been bouncing all over the place for no reason as I can see (top of first page one day, bottom of second the next), so maybe the algorithm is being changed for that as well? Somehow Hubs from Pennsylvania with few orders rank higher than one from NYC with 200+ order for the NYC area, so I really don’t know what’s going on there.
My placement has also been moving around. One day I was placed below hubs in other countries!!!
However orders have been consistent until the changes. Coincidence?
I suppose I do get a lot of student orders, and it’s not quite crunch time for semester projects yet so that could have something to do with it. But the placement thing is odd, and I do wonder if so many factors go into now that it’s difficult (near impossible) to predict where Hubs will end up when a file is uploaded.
Could it be that 3dhubs is pushing your customers away, by describing the most common form of 3d printing as low quality prototyping? Perhaps they went to another 3d printing web site altogether; one that describes 3d printing as really fantastic. Maybe they went to one of the printer farms instead.
Perhaps your customers were shown a “can i help you choose a material” dialogue when they arrived at your hub and went to a different hub after that material was chosen, or they saw pro****totyping materials, and went to a different hub, OR when they finally got to the point of buying, they were told that the print would be substandard, and they should “consider a different material” and went to a different hub.
Don’t worry, the data shows good outcomes!
@Steelmans 300 orders. Great reviews. Just the kind of hub 3dhubs does not want anymore. Those are some fine “low quality prototyping” prints you have on your website.
I do see the number of reviews on your site have dropped off dramatically, so I can tell you are telling the truth about orders.
Wow. You would think every employee on 3dhubs would be in here on this thread.
Maybe you are just a victim of the new ranking, you know, repeat business, blah, blah… which is what filemon suggested for another hub that said thier orders were dropping off.
Or maybe 3dhubs has implemented a policy that sends frighten customers away, that sends customers from your hub to other hubs, or that sends customers to other 3d printing sites, or that sends customers to printer farms.
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I think you also have your own website, and do printing outside of 3dhubs if I recall. Well, just remember that while 3dhubs redefines FDM as low quality prototyping materials, YOUR ENTIRE MARKET, not just 3dhubs, is being redefined.
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WHO at 3dhubs decided this was a good idea. WHO at 3dhubs decided to not fix it.
3dhubs personnel have definitely had discussions about this, and I guarantee one of the comments was “We have enough hubs, do we really want a few to push us around?”. This is how you open the door to competition.
You said " I do wonder if so many factors go into now that it’s difficult (near impossible) to predict where Hubs will end up when a file is uploaded" THIS specifically, is what 3dhubs does for a living. It is their main job. They are supposed to know exactly how it works.
We have, of course, been saying for awhile that it is broken, and they stated that they are working on tools so that folks other than their IT department can help figure out why hubs get ranked as they do. But that is a discussion for another thread.
yes rejecting an order due to recommending a different service will reduce your page rank. I went from page one in my area to page 2 just for sending someone to a sla hub as fdm was not a good choice for them. and now I am on page 2. now also understand I am the only hub in my town and hubs 100 mi away are being shown over mine that is right in town. the ranking system is flawed.
Why would you take a perfectly good SLA print and recommend it to an SLA printer 
? That is not the goal here. The goal here is to take perfectly good FDM prints and recommend them to SLA printers!!!
sorry I forgot lol. the thing I am most angry about is the fact that I got bumped from the first page in my area for doing the right thing. also I am the only print hub for about 20 miles and others from over 100 mi are being presented ahead of ours. now I have 2 dormant printers. how can you decline an order with out being punished for doing the right thing.
like I said I have 2 idle printer not making cash. I don’t turn down sales unless the customer and I agree a different printer is needed to get the results they require.
They can send some of those orders to me!!! Please!!!
Yes, this is really disgusting.
Why use a term like disgusting? Because if they just spent a little development time on the right stuff, and asked their base for help, we could tell them how to do better with their goals. Instead, they secretly institute a policy of taking our customers from us, AT THE SAME TIME they implement a returning customer ranking change.
That is not correct. We changed how we weight the reasons for rejecting an order, that caused the drop. The graph is a representation of how your accept rate based on these weights. We should definitely clarify that in the description.
Adam, 3D Hubs
Good. Thanks. I was worried hubs were doing things they shouldn’t. This is a pretty big issue. I have been on the phone and via email with several hubs the last few days. They are quite upset. The drop in accepts (at least how I read it) worried me that people were protesting.
Some have suggested this, and I think discussion is best.
Also, good to know some other folks from 3dhubs are following this. Maybe we can get some results!