So, FDM is only for "low accuracy prototypes"?

imagine3dps · 2017-03-16T12:11:42.000Z

I’d like to be on the call as well.

Mark

Steelmans · 2017-03-16T13:17:41.000Z

Something very strange happening here. I am well placed and well priced (too low but that another issue) but I have only received repeat orders since the changes. The customers must be going to SLA or SLS.

Enza3D · 2017-03-16T13:38:10.000Z

I’ve seen no increase in SLA orders either though; honestly orders have been (way) down since late January across all my printers. Usually I get at least a few orders per week on the Form, but I’ve seen that many in the past month. My placement in the rankings has been bouncing all over the place for no reason as I can see (top of first page one day, bottom of second the next), so maybe the algorithm is being changed for that as well? Somehow Hubs from Pennsylvania with few orders rank higher than one from NYC with 200+ order for the NYC area, so I really don’t know what’s going on there.

Steelmans · 2017-03-16T13:39:39.000Z

My placement has also been moving around. One day I was placed below hubs in other countries!!!

However orders have been consistent until the changes. Coincidence?

Enza3D · 2017-03-16T13:43:11.000Z

I suppose I do get a lot of student orders, and it’s not quite crunch time for semester projects yet so that could have something to do with it. But the placement thing is odd, and I do wonder if so many factors go into now that it’s difficult (near impossible) to predict where Hubs will end up when a file is uploaded.

keebie81 · 2017-03-16T13:55:08.000Z

Ive noticed same on my hub, typically id get about 5-10 orders a month and last month there has only been one order. I figured it was just possibly a slow time and competition from certain hubs that barely charge more than materials

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T16:18:28.000Z

Could it be that 3dhubs is pushing your customers away, by describing the most common form of 3d printing as low quality prototyping? Perhaps they went to another 3d printing web site altogether; one that describes 3d printing as really fantastic. Maybe they went to one of the printer farms instead.
Perhaps your customers were shown a “can i help you choose a material” dialogue when they arrived at your hub and went to a different hub after that material was chosen, or they saw pro****totyping materials, and went to a different hub, OR when they finally got to the point of buying, they were told that the print would be substandard, and they should “consider a different material” and went to a different hub.

Don’t worry, the data shows good outcomes!

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T17:37:44.000Z

@Steelmans 300 orders. Great reviews. Just the kind of hub 3dhubs does not want anymore. Those are some fine “low quality prototyping” prints you have on your website.
I do see the number of reviews on your site have dropped off dramatically, so I can tell you are telling the truth about orders.
Wow. You would think every employee on 3dhubs would be in here on this thread.
Maybe you are just a victim of the new ranking, you know, repeat business, blah, blah… which is what filemon suggested for another hub that said thier orders were dropping off.
Or maybe 3dhubs has implemented a policy that sends frighten customers away, that sends customers from your hub to other hubs, or that sends customers to other 3d printing sites, or that sends customers to printer farms.

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I think you also have your own website, and do printing outside of 3dhubs if I recall. Well, just remember that while 3dhubs redefines FDM as low quality prototyping materials, YOUR ENTIRE MARKET, not just 3dhubs, is being redefined.

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WHO at 3dhubs decided this was a good idea. WHO at 3dhubs decided to not fix it.

3dhubs personnel have definitely had discussions about this, and I guarantee one of the comments was “We have enough hubs, do we really want a few to push us around?”. This is how you open the door to competition.

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T17:44:15.000Z

You said " I do wonder if so many factors go into now that it’s difficult (near impossible) to predict where Hubs will end up when a file is uploaded" THIS specifically, is what 3dhubs does for a living. It is their main job. They are supposed to know exactly how it works.
We have, of course, been saying for awhile that it is broken, and they stated that they are working on tools so that folks other than their IT department can help figure out why hubs get ranked as they do. But that is a discussion for another thread.

jminer85 · 2017-03-16T18:00:27.000Z

yes rejecting an order due to recommending a different service will reduce your page rank. I went from page one in my area to page 2 just for sending someone to a sla hub as fdm was not a good choice for them. and now I am on page 2. now also understand I am the only hub in my town and hubs 100 mi away are being shown over mine that is right in town. the ranking system is flawed.

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T18:30:11.000Z

Why would you take a perfectly good SLA print and recommend it to an SLA printer ? That is not the goal here. The goal here is to take perfectly good FDM prints and recommend them to SLA printers!!!

jminer85 · 2017-03-16T19:49:14.000Z

sorry I forgot lol. the thing I am most angry about is the fact that I got bumped from the first page in my area for doing the right thing. also I am the only print hub for about 20 miles and others from over 100 mi are being presented ahead of ours. now I have 2 dormant printers. how can you decline an order with out being punished for doing the right thing.

jminer85 · 2017-03-16T19:58:51.000Z

like I said I have 2 idle printer not making cash. I don’t turn down sales unless the customer and I agree a different printer is needed to get the results they require.

Steelmans · 2017-03-16T20:16:37.000Z

They can send some of those orders to me!!! Please!!!

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T20:27:18.000Z

Yes, this is really disgusting.

Why use a term like disgusting? Because if they just spent a little development time on the right stuff, and asked their base for help, we could tell them how to do better with their goals. Instead, they secretly institute a policy of taking our customers from us, AT THE SAME TIME they implement a returning customer ranking change.

adamhayek · 2017-03-16T20:43:53.000Z

That is not correct. We changed how we weight the reasons for rejecting an order, that caused the drop. The graph is a representation of how your accept rate based on these weights. We should definitely clarify that in the description.

Adam, 3D Hubs

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T21:46:17.000Z

Good. Thanks. I was worried hubs were doing things they shouldn’t. This is a pretty big issue. I have been on the phone and via email with several hubs the last few days. They are quite upset. The drop in accepts (at least how I read it) worried me that people were protesting.

Some have suggested this, and I think discussion is best.

Perry_1 · 2017-03-16T21:47:37.000Z

Also, good to know some other folks from 3dhubs are following this. Maybe we can get some results!

Perry_1 · 2017-03-17T12:55:51.000Z

Day 7. On day 6, no response from 3dhubs at all in this thread on this abomination. They do not understand the depth and breadth of what they have done, and how it affects our marketplace, not just on 3dhubs, but with all or our customers. They are vastly underestimating the anger out here.
They continue attempt to redefine FDM printing as low quality prototyping. They continue to have contempt for those hubs who have spoken up here, by ignoring responses and answering questions incompletely or with pure misdirection.

I encourage all hubs who are aware of this, (which is not very many, because most hubs don’t read talk or have tried to create an order…) to PLEASE continue to discuss this here. It is important that 3dhubs is aware of the issue. Also, they are probably praying for this hub to slip past the front page or TALK.

Perry_1 · 2017-03-17T12:57:44.000Z

EDITED: I had posted that it appeared that declines were on the rise, based on data that 3dhubs shares with us. I was worried folks were dropping orders in protest, but they said that this was not the case, and it appears with my own tests that this is true, so I removed the post. (people were asking why I deleted the post)