I think many of us, for some time now, have been saying that it is becoming obvious that 3dhubs is trying to drive out FDM and the "little"guy.
They are trying to up the cost on FDM as one method to push customers to the more expensive (read - more profit for them) services.
They continue adding pointless “features” while ignoring complaints and feedback from hubs about real issues.
If they really don’t want FDM services and small operators then just do away with it but they need to quit talking out of both sides of their mouths. 3dhubs is not as clever as they think they are and we are not as stupid or naive as they seem to think we are.
Maybe you guys need to stop trying to micro-manage all of the hubs. If I want to incorporate a cost for support removal as part of my base rates for every part then so be it. But if I want to keep the selling cost down for the customer and only apply a charge for support removal where I deem it necessary then I should be able to.
You are not “leveling the playing field” by doing what you are doing. You are trying to lump all jobs into a “one size fits all” model for every location. As an example - I can print T-Shirts and sell them at $20 a shirt in Oklahoma. I can sell the same shirt for $50 in Los Angeles. Is this unfair? No - it is what the market will bear in those areas.
Customers are getting “surprised” by charges because your system is flawed. You were allowing hubs to add charges after the job was agreed on. All costs should be finalized before the customer agrees to proceed with the job.
You should be more worried about fixing the system so that when a customer and a hub each have agreed on the order the cost has been agreed to and set. At this point there are no “after” charges to “surprise” the customer.
Order flow: Customer load STL, picks material, color, resolution and other options that may be available and selects the hub they like > hub reviews initial order and communicates any issues, concerns or suggestions such as additional cost for support removal > customer reviews and if satisfied accepts and cost is locked in otherwise looks at options > if customer accepts then hub confirms acceptance and the order proceeds for payment and production.
Hubs should survive or die based on a normal free market, not because you think it is unfair that I don’t charge for most support removal when Joe does. Maybe Joe is paying an employee to remove supports and I am doing it myself so my overhead is less and consequently my cost to produce the part is less.
I have watched the same comments being made week after week for the last year about basic issues with the order system and yet nothing has been done. Your biggest asset to improving the overall experience and success, the hubs, are being completely ignored.
It really seems like you guys want this to be more of an employee driven business where hubs work for you and get a flat rate for jobs rather than as independent contractors.
You have a good platform and if you want it to go in a new direction then fine but enough of the excuses and double talk.
If hubs could configure a support removal cost for SLA similar to the per cm3 materials cost we set currently, the customer can check or uncheck support removal as an option during the ordering process, and easily see the cost with, and without support removal immediately. Obviously this will not easily cover all bases as some small jobs are more time consuming than bigger jobs, but it allows a hub to price accordingly. I almost never remove supports, but I do include side clippers with most orders free of charge now. Out of 54 jobs, only 3 had supports removed and I have maintained a 5 star rating due to value (and probably communication). I always include this message on my orders (I have other standard messages used as part of my order processing):
Job 1 of 1 for this order: ###### is complete, and post curing. Photos will be attached of the items after post cure completes. I will then pack and ship the order and provide further status updates. Since support materials will remain on the part, here are the guidelines for removing supports and the artifacts left behind from their removal: https://support.formlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000035230-Removing-Support-Marks#remove
I agree with @ProtoCulture . 3D hubs is in the business of providing the interface to connect service providers with service seekers. They should focus on providing an interface that allows us to operate with just as much flexibility as our customers have, not dictating how we do business.
3D Hubs produced an excellent layman’s guide to 3D printing. Why not create a similar guide for potential customers who want to know what they don’t know about ordering a printed part. This could educate the potential customer about the interface, how to use it, and what to expect (things like do I want or need support material removal), and could integrate into the order process to guide the customer to the right hub service. It would also have the potential to guide customers to hubs that offer things like full finishing and painting services. In my mind it’s a no brainer that an educated customer is going to be more willing place orders, and may want services that they wouldn’t otherwise know they can get thru 3D Hubs (read that as higher avg. transaction amounts).
My opinion, working with hubs to allow us to be flexible, is the only way this business model will work for both of parties. Maybe I am totally wrong, and 3D Hubs wants start buying their own printer fleets and selling their services direct… ?
BTW just to illustrate proto’s point, I’ve attached some images of 2 prints that required support removal for a customer. Both prints cost about the same to the customer before additional services. Guess which one required 2.5hrs of model re-work and 2 hrs of support removal and nurb removal that wouldn’t have been quoted into the autogenerated price?
I only do FDM for now and generally always remove supports at no real extra cost. For me at this point support removal is sort of a bonus for the customer and also I would rather just do it then let them fight with it unless they specify they want to.
I like your post process info and providing links to tips. Great idea.
3dhubs has focused so much on dictating to hubs what they must do that they have left the customer flapping in the wind. I haven’t had orders recently but it doesn’t mean I haven’t been contacted. Customers don’t want to use 3dhubs because it has become such a frustrating and cumbersome experience for them.
Love those prints! IS that SLA? I want to get into it but can’t justify the cost.
If we are being forced to have the default as “You must remove supports.”, the chance for a conversation will not happen with my hub. I will be required to change my extremely inexpensive pricing to a model that incorporates my typical hourly rate. This will cause all of my prints to go from near cheapest, to a level that nobody would even click on my hub to “start a conversation” about the now mandatory support removal cost.
While some people host their printers on 3D Hubs as part of a business, I host mine to somewhat passively make money back on my printer while it isn’t being used for personal projects. My costs are able to be marginally above actual materials cost since I do some prep work, the printer does most of the work itself, I plop it in alcohol, and ship it off on my way to work. Being required to spend hours removing support materials, will make me add the actual cost of my time to the order. When sourcing anything not on this site I prefer the “do it myself” pricing to limit my costs. Others prefer this also. Forced support removal removes value from many hubs.
This should be a separately calculated line item that is customer selected during the order process. If you went to an auto parts store or a home improvement/hardware store, and people added labor costs to everything, people would stop shopping there. Lightswitch $3, mandatory electrician hourly rate of $125 for the bookrate has been added to your purchase, please contact us if you wish to discuss the pricing. The item never makes it in the cart.
What is sad is that 3DHubs is doing this in a vacuum. Did they reach out to hubs asking them what to do? Probably 2 or 3 in Amsterdam. My hubs prices are very low, as the goal for me is to get 3d printed parts out to people for a reasonable cost. There is no place to state what are optional services, or what MANDATORY services are. Might be time for us all to switch to other 3d printing sites, like makexyz.com.
If 3dHubs is going to micro-manage all of us hubs, then I would say that we are being employed by 3dHubs and that we should be also compensated per hour for anything that we have to do with regards to printing. Uber lost its claim that it was just an app and that it’s driver’s were subcontractors, and they are employees. If 3dHubs is going down this path, it is a slippery slope.
There next step is going to be that hubs won’t be able to assign prices for their prints, and that there is one set price per location.
I know it! Most of the stuff I make doesn’t have very complicated supports so they are not to bad to remove. I just do light clean up on removal and let the customer know about finishing that they can do. I probably spend an inordinate amount of time fiddling with the supports so that when they print they can pop right off! I guess that is my OCD challenge!
I did have one job where each part had massive supports (each print was 35 hours) and were a pain to remove, sliced hands and all! Who knew PETG could be so sharp! Because of the size and cost of the job I still included it as basic support removal.
