Thanks for the elaborate response, I have to disagree with you here. Yes, we are adding additional services to 3D Hubs as they are released to the world. That does not mean that we stop supporting FDM or SLA, these technologies are extremely well suited for a specific type of project where SLS and HP are there for others. Personally, my favorite type of printing is SLA on the Form 2 because SLS and HP don’t allow me to show off all the details in my models as SLA or DLP can. (my desk at 3D Hubs in attachments)
In a previous response you said: “As I stated, I HAD the option to use support material removal as an optional upcharge.” This is exactly what we are trying to avoid, customers want to pay the amount they see quoted on the 3D print page and they don’t get surprised by additional costs after sending in the order. Some Hubs would charge support material and removal as an additional costs while others already counted for this in their base price. We’re simply trying to level the playing field.
I think many of us, for some time now, have been saying that it is becoming obvious that 3dhubs is trying to drive out FDM and the "little"guy.
They are trying to up the cost on FDM as one method to push customers to the more expensive (read - more profit for them) services.
They continue adding pointless “features” while ignoring complaints and feedback from hubs about real issues.
If they really don’t want FDM services and small operators then just do away with it but they need to quit talking out of both sides of their mouths. 3dhubs is not as clever as they think they are and we are not as stupid or naive as they seem to think we are.
Maybe you guys need to stop trying to micro-manage all of the hubs. If I want to incorporate a cost for support removal as part of my base rates for every part then so be it. But if I want to keep the selling cost down for the customer and only apply a charge for support removal where I deem it necessary then I should be able to.
You are not “leveling the playing field” by doing what you are doing. You are trying to lump all jobs into a “one size fits all” model for every location. As an example - I can print T-Shirts and sell them at $20 a shirt in Oklahoma. I can sell the same shirt for $50 in Los Angeles. Is this unfair? No - it is what the market will bear in those areas.
Customers are getting “surprised” by charges because your system is flawed. You were allowing hubs to add charges after the job was agreed on. All costs should be finalized before the customer agrees to proceed with the job.
You should be more worried about fixing the system so that when a customer and a hub each have agreed on the order the cost has been agreed to and set. At this point there are no “after” charges to “surprise” the customer.
Order flow: Customer load STL, picks material, color, resolution and other options that may be available and selects the hub they like > hub reviews initial order and communicates any issues, concerns or suggestions such as additional cost for support removal > customer reviews and if satisfied accepts and cost is locked in otherwise looks at options > if customer accepts then hub confirms acceptance and the order proceeds for payment and production.
Hubs should survive or die based on a normal free market, not because you think it is unfair that I don’t charge for most support removal when Joe does. Maybe Joe is paying an employee to remove supports and I am doing it myself so my overhead is less and consequently my cost to produce the part is less.
I have watched the same comments being made week after week for the last year about basic issues with the order system and yet nothing has been done. Your biggest asset to improving the overall experience and success, the hubs, are being completely ignored.
It really seems like you guys want this to be more of an employee driven business where hubs work for you and get a flat rate for jobs rather than as independent contractors.
You have a good platform and if you want it to go in a new direction then fine but enough of the excuses and double talk.
For example, there can be a bargaining option regarding terms in the guidline: Both side can accept some of the terms or all of them in the guideline, as long as both sides have reached an accord, there will be hardly any misunderstanding.
Agree with your points. I do support removal as a complimentary service for the most part. It isn’t a big deal and I want to see how the part is.
Like you, my costs are low so I can price accordingly. I am not trying to undercut anyone but just offering printing at a rate that I am ok with in my area so people can have access and learn about it.
i have used the price of surface area to get paid by the hours spent on printing… its not perfect, some parts have less surface area but takes more time etc… you get my point
for the material cost i have used the price for used material which only became available recently
what we real need is a way to upload slicer configs for the most popular slicers so that time needed can be calculated and the time spent factored in
of course for that to work 3dhubs can only support slicers that can be cloud driven… and they need to include some way to take post processing in to account…
Next they need to fix the sorting by distance feature… google api’s can do this for them and yet they still meassure distance by bird route and not the route by car or bike… for sure i’m not going to run the bike for 6 hours because the bird route says its close by and the fact is another
The support material removal option needs to be made a cost definable option that the customer can select during ordering.
Out of 50 orders, only one was surprised/confused by having support material attached. I am now spending more time explaining to the customer about support material and if they want me to remove it, or if they want to and I supply free side clippers. I even have “My prices do **NOT** include support material removal.” as the first line of my Hub’s About section which is visible during ordering, but I still have to explain it. If this system is not altered to have this as an optional cost based service (no matter how it get defined), I will voluntarily offline my hub until that does become a feature. That isn’t a declaration of protest, it is simply my determination that the current SLA guidelines will make my continued high level of service too much of an inconvenience for me. My other option is to add my hourly rate to my complex calculation, which will have me receive 0 orders (or people asking if my prices include hand delivery by Justin Bieber, where he also plays a full concert post delivery).
@Wirlybird curious as some of my non-3d hubs orders I do remove support and sand. This can take me anywhere from 1 to 3 hours depending on the number of parts, how fragile the parts are etc. If I were to use my typical rates, the minimum cost would be over $300 USD for a stupid simple print that take only 1 - 2 hours of time.
I think there is some flexibility in the guidelines. Ex. I have always removed support material, but offered full sanding and priming as an add on. I made sure to update my hub’s description to spell this out. (Basically, it’s how I can keep my price lower than other hubs.) With this stated up front, it creates an understanding with the customer and therefore meets the new guidelines. I think as long as customers aren’t surprised, then everyone is ok.
The first line of my hub states I don’t remove supports, nearly all of my clients have no idea what my hub ‘About’ section states unfortunately. Even though it also appears during ordering too, it again goes unread. This is why it needs to be selectable as part of the order process.
