Requesting to work “off network” is a MASSIVE red flag to us.
Now that the makers pay the 3dhubs fee… there is literally NO reason to go off network.
None.
These conversations should be monitored and people that recommend this course of action be warned then removed. Makers who indulge in this behavior should be removed entirely(no warning they know better).
Working OFF network only hurts the makers. It provides nothing for the customer… in fact it removes some protections with the funds being in escrow.
It’s bad for everyone… don’t do it. Don’t request it, Don’t indulge it.
I agree. Aside from the ethics issues that have already been mentioned, dealing with people like this is asking for trouble anyway. Of course I wouldn’t complain if the fee was lowered but I think it’s absolutely fair for the service you get. I have even had clients I met on my own order through my hub for the piece of mind.
I have this same exact message from another guy with the same first name. I thought maybe he just wanted me to review his designs before he uploaded them to the order, but it seem this is a wide spread scam of some kind. Other Hubs may have the exact same message from a similar user. I will cancel this inquiry from this user. Thanks for pointing this out to us!
I already posted a comment on this thread, but I just wanted to point out to you that this might be a wider spread scam, since both I and ProtoHouse have different users asking the exact same thing even though I am in Dallas and they are in San Francisco.
Woah, hang on there, you’ve gotta re-think this decision.
Yes, it is wrong and no, nobody on 3DHubs should promote or encourage such behaviours.
However…
someone just asked if it’s possible to work together offline, we all know the answer is no so we just tell them no. The customer only voiced out his or her wish and our jobs as a hubs operator is to know when to say no. You cannot just label them as scammers immediately and ban them! How many customers will we lose through this approach?
I really hope that you can at least try to see this from a customer’s point of view, cause you and I were also once, a customer.
I’m a little conflicted on this because I somewhat agree with you but I think this particular example is pretty obvious. Especially since another example with the same wording “just a personal preference” was just posted. I like less regulation but at the same time one of the main reason I’m paying that service fee is to not have to deal with scams like this.
-Jesse
I agree with you, but this user may have actually been a scammer. I got the exact same message from a different user with the same first name, and mine and ProtoHouse’s hub are very far apart.
Haha cross verified. Thanks. Yeah reported ans hubs say they ha e banned this user. They likely saw all the same outbound messages to several hubs and made this same conclusion. Good work all! Keep making. J Should be noted i got both the spammer and scammer enquires 20min apart. Likely same person with different communication fishing techniques.
Youll note i was recommending a warning to customers then a ban. They went straight to ban…likely saw more than we did from their end. These people are not worth dealing with…on or off the network.
Since the messages are almost word for word, you are most definitely right, this guy might have intentions other than just your 3D-printing expertise or want to save a few bucks of fees by dealing under the table (here is the scamming part I understood). These people will always be there. They are the 1%-3% of the internet (no source here but bare with me). And if you want to have system wide surveillance for that 1%-3%, it’s exactly like the NSA. Don’t get used to that and think we have all lost our privacy since then.
So the question here is really what is the long term solution? Similar to the spam advertising incident last week, it may be time to offer users to report other users and will be subjected to review. To me, seeing all these report icons for post and users might make 3DHubs seem less cozy. So the last option is of course to treat this as a single case scenario and move on. 3DHubs cannot be upping their defences every time someone posts something foolish or annoying. Soon all users will require Captchas to log in. So I am for making it clear to hubs about such rules when they sign up and move on.
3dhubs used to HEAVILY monitor communications. As usage went up their ani ity to do so went down. So its on us makers to report. The problem is an eady method to report. They recommended adding a button to do so. Thats a great thing. Easy, leeps tje power in tje jands of 3duubs and makes it so i dont have to publically blast people like this. I also emailed their customer service along side this public post. The reason for posting publically at all is really to remind makers what this about and what is the right course of action for this kind of behavior. Agreed its a small percentage which means they wont need to review that many report button pressesl to review. The bad news for shady hubs… Will be that it wont be public. And when reviewed hubs are found to be indulging with off metwork requests they are subject to ban. Friendly reminder… Theyve always monitored…
I think you are really on to something here in terms of the “bad look” aspect. I also really like concept of being able to say to the rest of the hubs “hey I got this shady message, anyone else seen anything like it/have an opinion/etc” so stuff like the ^above^ can be outed.
Maybe this kind of “inside baseball” stuff should be segregated from the general chat and be in it’s own section. I think it’s very beneficial for the hubs and should help mitigate the need for the kind of overreach you are worried about. I also think there is no reason why potential customers or people just coming here interested in 3d printing in general should have to scroll past this crap that doesn’t interest them.
without mentioning who it is (3dhubs is notified)… i got this:
“Hi,
We have a project we would like 3D printed but due to confidentiality, we do not want to upload the file onto 3D Hubs platform. We would prefer if we can communicate with you by email if you would be willing to work with us.”
my reply:
“I have asked 3Dhubs to ban your account, this is against everything the 3dhubs idea stands for.”
one can wonder why a polish dude wants something printed at a hub in Denmark… :-/
Well Guys and Gals., WHAT ABOUT THE DOT COMS??? I cannot understand how these companies get on here, and in their description they give their .com adress? Next you click on their links and there is a place to upload your stl files OFF SITE??? this does not seem like good business either, what do you think? I think they are just stealing traffic from 3d hubs and stealing is all I can see when I look at these .com addresses on here. Seems to be more than 1-3% percent right now… I can’t believe this, I DO NOT think it is right! It is like stealing and I would Love to Flag everyone doing it? BUT maybe I am just jealous because I don’t direct traffic from this site and print parts minus the 3d hubs fees…Please let me know what you guys think!? I just recently saw a 3d hubs mayor in a different country doing this as well? Now I just had one pop up in my own back yard and I DO NOT like this at all! their are getting orders though.lol , but the second page you click on ask for you to upload your model files OffSite? WHY??? this helps NONE OF US! Let me know please your feelings on this(This has been bugging me more and more) now it is ridiculous and time to make it stop/this my opinion what’s yours PLEASE? should I get over myself or should we figure out a way to make this stop? Like most are saying, “3dhubs brings me the business and tools to make this happen”, and are constantly in “standby mode” whenever I or my clients need a little help, not to mention that they are the creators, and in my mind deserve their cut! Thank You for reading this rant please share your thoughts on .com links to sites that steal traffic. thanx again.
Makers advertising alternate services (direct or 3rd party) should be automatic ban.
I hope they implement the “report” button. If their system cannot monitor for .com like it used too (why it changed I have no idea) then the other makers need to be the ones policing each other and clients.
I’m not sure you handled this one correctly. Most of my work is prototypes and a lot of my clients are paranoid/protective of their invention/design. I often sign nondisclosure agreements and people who don’t want to upload their model are not necessarily up to something.
THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION. After a client sends you their design you can just upload a cube or other object of the same volume so they get charged appropriately and EVERYONE is happy. If they don’t like that then, yeah I would say they are up to something and you should inform 3dhubs.
The OP’s situation was obviously a scam but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let’s not turn this into a witch hunt!
-Jesse
They can upload an NDA right off the bat.
If had a few people do that…
3dhubs also “claims” to protect the files as part of the TOS.
Basically if they are THAT concerned… they shouldn’t be using this basically anonymous distributed network and should find a professional service bureau in their area. Specifically one in their own country where the laws would actually apply.
We’ve let more than one fish go because they wanted to be “special snowflakes” or expected some kind of special handling.
Problematic customers from the start never get any better down the road.
End of the day… if they can’t trust 3dhubs… we don’t trust them. Don’t really care their excuses or reasoning’s… it starts with trust. No trust… no deal.
Last time I checked, both those countries are in the EU so the laws DO apply. I think your view of “trust” is a little naive. Have you ever invented something? I think your mentality of ban/report now and ask questions later, and if you don’t like it you should hire a professional is TOXIC. I am a professional and most of my clients are “special snowflakes”
-Jesse
Wow… Tell it to 3dhubs. No one here has the power to ban. Only ask for review if communications that are seemingly violating or attempting to violate tos. 3dhubs may operate over boundaries that dont honor ip laws… I honestly dont know. In THIS case…was a scammer…in his case…a scammer. So chill. Scammers getting called out is a good thing.
No doubt if someone is using multiple accounts asking for off-hub services internationally, then it is somewhat shady. Currently I do not see anyone posting any more info than just someone inquiring for off-hub services. Nobody even tried to go further to investigate what are the intentions of these users because they can’t wait to hop on the Vigilante Wagon. I hope someone can provide us with more information here rather than just assuming a scam. What do they want from us? As long as we do not carry out any transactions or give out personal information we are in control.
I know in the automotive industry for example, you do not want to sign an NDA with someone you just met over the internet and pass over your IP. This means that 3DHubs is currently not fully set up for serious B2B operations, and that’s fine. In the case of someone from the industry thinking of trying out 3DHubs for their company, they will shunned off and mostly likely never return if we continue to follow this approach.
We as a hubs operator shouldn’t behave in such a “us vs. them”/“we are right they are definitely wrong” mentality, it is getting pretty radical pretty quickly as you can see. We as operators need to learn more about treating a potential customer professionally and be in the position to deny any illegitimate service we do not wish to offer. Yes, even if they are behaving completely irrational or are asking for services that are clearly illegitimate we have to politely decline. After which you may be free to report the user to an admin.
For this particular guy, many of you will use him as a counter argument, that it is “obvious” he is trying to scam you. I would like to see some proof of when he actually committed the crime of trying to scam you other than violating the terms and conditions of 3DHubs? To me that is not the full story and we are all playing Judge Dredd.
You state the exact point. Its not for serious b2b. Those that need that level of service will not find it here unless you go off network and violate the terms you signed as a vendor. Again there isnt a judge dredd. A report to 3dhubs isnt a final say. If they feel the user is violating they make that call. Again…tell 3dhubs if you dont like the TOS you signed. Its not up to me to prove they are scammers…its up to them to follow the rules of the TOS and not even ask to go off network in the first place. Read the tos… Follow or leave or be banned for violating. Its like every site. The scammer defending is hilarious… Guilty much fellas? Stay on network.
please share your thoughts on .com links to sites that steal traffic. thanx again.
