Detachment of actual print from support structures

[daniel_pointeck]

Florian, you need to rotate the part so that there are no big surfaces at the beginning of a print.

The principle how a Form 1 works is that the laser is curing the resin on the bottom surface of the tank.

The platform is peeling the layers away from that surface. So you can imagine that a bigger area at the beginning is more difficult to peel.

Just have a look to this tutorial http://formlabs.com/support/guide/prepare/model-orientation/

[DruckWege]

Hey Guys, Thank you very much for your advice! I just started a new print considering you suggestions. I’ll give you an update tomorrow as soon as the print finishes.

[DruckWege]

Thanks for your insight. At least the temperature thing i can rule out, since we monitor this tediously. Even FDM printers are really sensitive to temperature cahnges.

[DruckWege]

Actually I bought a new tank for this exact reason. Sadly they’re quite expensive…

[DruckWege]

Done that, printing right now!

[My_Thing]

Your part orientation is all wrong and likely the only problem.

You cant print parallel to the build platform.

Angle everything!

[My_Thing]

Oh sorry I couldn’t see all the replies to your post until after I posted and it wont let me remove or edit my post…

[DruckWege]

Hey folks, tried different orrientations no luck at all…

[Tobias_4]

Check:

-Scroll through the layers in preform, do they all look right? Sometimes bad STL’s can cause Preform to show the model, but it doesn’t slice it properly

-Check your tank bottom for clouding

-Do other models print fine?

-Upload your .form here and I have a look at it

[DruckWege]

The tank is new, first used with this model.

Other models are working fine.

I’ll check the STL as you said this evening/night. but Meshmixer didn’t found any issues.

I can’t upload it, since I don’t have the permission, sorry

[Tobias_4]

Well, the fact that the supports print so nice and you used a new tank and different resin at least tells you there is nothing wrong with the printer.

If you don’t find the problem and you can’t upload the model, post a screenshot of the cross section (layer) where the printing of the model starts failing.

PS: you shouldn’t place models on the build platform like that - even if they print, the strain on the mechanics and tank will be much higher than with supports.

[DruckWege]

The reason I printed the cube directly on the bed was that the removement of the support is quite tedious and i had to ship 50 pcs, I considered this a good idea (spoiler all cubes where fine). Additionally the support generated would be consume as much resin as the cube itself.

Which raises another general question to me, since 3D Hubs cant calculate the volume of the needed support how do you the pricing? simply assuming some percentage offset, hoping it doesn’t need more? I already have trouble, due to failures of such a simple looking model

But anyway thanks for the hint on the strain! could you please add more detail to you explanation? since i can’t imagine why there should be less strain if printing with supports and the same orientation. it has to peel it off anyway?

[Tobias_4]

-I always add costs for support to orders. Haven’t had a customer reject his order because of the added cost. I agree that this should be fixed or at least there should be a way to inform the customer that there will be added cost. The other option is to jack up your ml price but that doesn’t help if the customer compares prices.

-Supports help take some strain off the peeling process because they allow the platform-part-tank to move in x/y a bit, so they take the initial hit before the part peels of the tank - otherwise these forces will work against the peeling mechanism, your platform and the tank / PDMS layer. If you watch it print a larger cross section you may notice that your platform slightly tilts on peeling, together with the tank - when you print directly on the platform, the platform and the tank are basically glued together and nothing can move in x or y - but it wants to shift a bit, and that force now goes to the T-rail, tank and platform (and your print)

Also when placing objects flat on the tray, you usually printing the largest cross section through the whole print (the cube is an exception obviously)

I also tried to print objects directly on the platform, cause I wanted to save resin and have nice surfaces, but out of 3 different parts, only one printed right.

Lastly, Formlabs themselves state that you should always use supports - although one might argue this is because they like to sell the juice for those supports

For me, the thinking goes like that: A failed print means wasted juice, wasted time cause I have to filter the resin, potentially a wasted tank because of clouding and I have to start all over with the print. If I can avoid one failed print in 20 by placing supports, it’s worth it to me - especially cause I make the customer pay for the supports.

On another note, place objects near the hinge side of the tank to reduce the strain on the peeling stepper / threaded rod. You will have more lever -> less force needed.

[DruckWege]

Thank you very much @Tobias_4!! your comment is really valuable, thanks for sharing.

[n23d]

The only other suggestion I have that I have not seen made is to increase the density of supports. I have had some models that just take more supports than others to print properly. And yes you will use more resin for supports however you have at least 2 failed prints that uses resin too. You might want to empty the tank and filter the resin before refilling. Cleaning the tank and filtering the resin is always a good idea after any failed print. Use a funnel with a pipe filter screen or a paint filter. Floaters in the resin can really cause lots of troubles. They do not always affect the base because they are squished out to the edges. As the part builds they are drawn back into the center where they block the resin from curing to the already built part and or supports. Once you get any gap at all the part degrades and can fail completely.

[Tobias_4]

You are most welcome! Let us know if and how you resolved this.

Tobias

[DruckWege]

Hey guys, good news! Thanks to your feedback and support i managed to get the print rolling!

[Temujin]

I have a question about what I see in the current images showing a completes print.

What is the Orange tape for? I’ve never used that before. If anything, my parts always seem very difficult to remov from the bare aluminum build platform.

[DruckWege]

Maybe its a bit confusing, sorry for that the second picture shows the print curing on a metal plate, which is a heated bed from a RepRap Mendel design of us and has nothing to do with the Form1 we just placed the part there. The orange tape is Kapton tape. It is used with FDM printers to get a better adhesion to the bed.

[Tobias_4]

What did you change?