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Dec 2016
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Dec 2016
Dec 2016
PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

Figured I’d finally make a post about this. I’ve been having this problem for a while now, with 3 of my printers actually. Strange problems that, after all my time 3d printing, I can’t really seem to diagnose what is causing the problems. Which leaves me to one thing, the only part I really don’t understand, the motherboard.

Please use this forum/thread as an informational piece for future reference for people who are curious if their recent ‘malfunctions’ are not actually mechanical at all, but really, the motherboard dying on them.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps! I will be posting my exact symptoms as a comment on this tag. If you too are having problems feel free to do the same! Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks again!

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

**Here’s a bit of fluff if you want to read it all, skip to the problem if you just want to hear what’s wrong :stuck_out_tongue: **

So some time ago, my printers began to show many varying problems. Now usually, when a problem comes up I’m able to diagnose it reasonably fast, and replace the affected part/parts and have the printer back up and running in no time. The machines I have are Prusa I3 Kits (original prusa’s. I have a Mk2 on the way and am really excited!). They are starting to hit upwards of 1000, and even 1500+ Hours on them, so naturally the maintenance on them has begun to increase as I doubt these china kits are meant for such high production loads (I’m starting my own 3d printing firm so pretty well any time they can be running they are.)

It’s gotten to the critical point now, where 3 of my 4 machines are down, and I’m quickly cannibalising the other machines to keep that one running smoothly, and to try and fix my current one (Also using parts in my own attempt to design a 3d printer, not just maintenance). Now until this point the printers have been doing very well, having very little problems, most that I did have I had caused myself. The issue is, no matter how many parts I swap or belts I tighten I just can not find the issue on this one!

**The Problem**
So when it first began, one of my printers would shift randomly during a print. Maybe a centimetre in height into the print, it would shift in some direction, either X or Y, by about 2-3mm. It would print 1, maybe 2, layers like that, and then return to printing normal as if nothing happened. Now this baffles me, as if a belt were slipping or a stepper was skipping steps, it wouldn’t return back to perfect positioning so consistently. and I mean it when I say it’s consistent, every time it returns when the issue happens. As far as vibrations or the printer being bumped possibly, they’re all on a crazy customised shelf I built of 2x4’s and plywood, the table itself is actually 16" on centre, with a leg at every cross beam so that the extra mass would help to dampen vibrations. (Probably overkill, but I enjoyed building it so :P).

Another problem I’ve been having is with heated beds/extruders disconnecting or returning an error message killing the print. I can’t tell you how many thermistors I’ve changed in an attempt to fix this issue, and even buying brand new heating elements for the heated beds to see if it would combat it. Now for this problem, I should mention that I had this in the past, but switching out the motherboards worked for a few months or so before the issues came back again. To be more specific with this one, the first issue I mentioned was initially on one printer only, but has since happened to the other printer which was having issues with the heated bed.

To sum it up, 1 printer shifts randomly, 1 printer shifts randomly and loses connection to the heated bed, 1 printer loses connection to the extruder, and 1 printer is doing just fine (the working one is my 2nd newest printer.)

Thanks in advance for the help!

wirlybird
Dec '16

You say you have original prusa i3 kits but then call them china kits. Which is it? Did they come from Prusa or are they clones? It is hard to even start to diagnosis something when not sure what it really is you really have.

If these are real Prusa’s have you reached out to them on their chat and forums for help? That would be a very good source.

zx81
Dec '16

Have you checked the wiring for breaks with the high usage on the machine’s and the constant flexing of cables you could have a break in them?

wirlybird
Dec '16

Got it! I think the suggestion above is a good starting point. Check all connections are good. Look for wire breaks, may be hard to find. Another thing that is possible is solder joints failing but these will be hard to see without a large magnifying glass.

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

The first time I had issues I actually replaced all the wiring with my own primary wire. I also bumped up all the gauges, so the 18 gauge wires are now 16 etc. The board itself actually doesn’t have wires directly soldered to it, it’s a mix of clip on connectors and screw terminals for the higher amp feeds. Thanks again btw guys for all the suggestions so far!

jfield
Dec '16

Could it possibly be your 120v supply power is having fluctuations or brownouts. I assume all the printers are running off the same line if they are on the same table. Brownouts and spikes can cause electronics to do strange things. Also could heat around the control boards be a problem? When I first started printing with my printer, I would get some random shifts, and assumed it was my z stepper overheating and missing steps. I removed the cover over the control board, and haven’t had a skip since. Recently I hooked a Raspberry PI with a t/c and recorded the temperature around the board. With the cover on it was running at least 5C hotter around the board.

RCole
Dec '16

Background info - or skip to questions at the bottom.

I had similar problems with 2 Ultimaker 2+ machines and one Lulzbot Taz 5. Only in the Z direction. At about 1cm in height, it would move the head down into the print instead of up. After a couple of layers, it would return to where it should be - except the print was broken loose and the damage was already done - I have some spectacular fails.

I spent the time to search through the gcode and found commands in the gcode to move the Z axis in the wrong direction.

When I switched off of using slic3r to using Cura, the problem went away.

So… Have you updated any software or firmware recently? What slicer are you using? Have you tried others? Can you backtrack and use older versions (if you did an update)?

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

Thanks for the reply!
They’re actually all on separate circuits. Just recently I had all the electrical in my garage re-done specifically for the printers and the business (Before, the one circuit for the garage also included the kitchen which included the fridge, and the furnace. The garage is also detached and the way the electrical was originally done was literally just a wire running from some outlet inside, then out about 4" under ground through the garden and to the garage)

As far as the motherboards overheating possibly, if that was the case then I don’t think the layers would re-align the way they do. I’ve had steps skip in the past but it always continues the print mis-aligned, it doesn’t go back to being perfectly aligned. Which leaves me to believe that it’s not the motors skipping, as for them to coincidentally be skipping out and perfectly back in again just doesn’t sound possible lol.

I’ll give it a check though, same with the faulty wiring mentioned as a possibility earlier, this whole issue just has me so baffled as it doesn’t clearly point to any one fault.

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

Thanks RCole! this does sound very much so like the issue I’m having, just in a different direction. I use mainly Repetier, using the Slicer slicing settings for my gcode. I do use Cura as well, as sometimes I was having issues with the outcome of slicer made gcodes (Infill not combining with walls properly, gaps between perimeters, 100% infill was never 100%, more like 40%) when I had these issues I switched to cura for a bit and after the next update the problems went away.

Only thing I have to say though, is if the issue was in the slicer would it not affect my now only good printer too? Or if not, then would that leave it to be an issue with Both the slicing software and the printer.

Very glad to hear that I’m not the only one with these exact symptoms, especially so that you too have gone through similar means of fixing it! I too have had some very unique results from failed prints that I normally wouldn’t expect otherwise.

Thanks again for the response!

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

Ah ok so you mean on the boards directly themselves. I’ll have to check and see if this is the case. Would this be something that another issue could cause to go bad? (high voltage/current etc.) or just something that would be a defect sent straight from the factory itself?

RCole
Dec '16

Do you live in an area with a high humidity? Poor soldering practices (I could go on for many paragraphs on what that could be - I used to teach soldering including the physics behind it), humidity and vibration can combine to cause poor connection and/or intermittent issues. @wirlybird may have hit on something here.

Sometimes (most times) reflowing the solder will fix these problems.Make sure to clean up any flux on the board afterwards. Flux + humidity = conductive path (sometimes).

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

I had suspected humidity as a possible cause for a while actually. The printers are out in my garage, and for most of the summer it was quite humid (I was constantly battling moisture in my filaments). If this were the cause, what should I look for to diagnose it? Also I have to admit, I ran out of my good solder and the new stuff can be quite nasty… leaving a lot of flux and residual gunk on the joints and around them

RCole
Dec '16

You might have to be careful about that. Having two different fluxes can cause corrosion issues. Especially when exposed to humidity. Make sure you clean off any left-over flux.

For previous flux/humidity issues, look for white powder/streaks on the board and especially around soldered points. Old solder that is corroding will be very dull grey. New solder should be shiny. If you see dark lines around where the solder meets metal, it is either left over flux (will be easily removed) or galvanic corrosion - the humidity got between the solder and the metal - can be caused by poor soldering with vibration opening a path for the moisture. Especially check where connectors join boards - these often have vibration issues.

Well, that’s some of what to look for anyway. I hope you get your problems sorted out.

Rover31
Dec '16

I am having I think the same issue.

My extruder started stuttering and acting clogged. Check volt settings all good there. New nozzle didn’t do anything. New extruder motor, hot end the entire thing just to start fresh. Still nope. So today I swap the cables from the X to the extruder and eureka! it worked… only for just a few moments then then stopped. So I swap the stepper driver board and it worked… once again for just a moment. In fact I noticed that all of the steppers are not always working. very intermittent. If I turn the machine off and let it sit I come back and test it may or may not work. Sometimes it will work great all axis’s will move sadly, mostly not.

So perhaps a new motherboard? Or?

Thanks for letting me jump on board!

I have a CTC 4880 unit for reference.

PepCo_Parker
Dec '16

I personally have not, not sure about rover. I do have a new motherboard on the way though so if when I replace it all symptoms go away then I’ll assume it was indeed the motherboard.

Rover31
Dec '16

No I have not. I did try a new cable set with no effect. New stepper drivers are on the way and will try those out if that does not work new board then.

What board did you order? There are several different ones to choose from. I am leaning to a GT2560.

Thanks for keeping this thread going!