Hate to be that guy and ask for advice on buying a printer, like every newbie does, but I can’t readily find this topic already discussed. I have my heart set on getting the biggest delta printer I can afford, and I’ve found two candidates: the Kossel XL and the He3D DTL 600. The Kossel comes out to about $425 and the He3D is $700. However, I really want a dual extruder, and the He3D has that feature.
So, is it more practical to go with the cheaper Kossel and upgrade to dual extruder, or just bite the bullet and shell out the extra $300 for the He3D?
Thanks for your words of wisdom!
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I own an He3D DLT-180, bought as a kit and assembled by me. I’d suggest you to ask for a detailed photo of the DLT-600 dual hot-end: I did the same when I was thinking of buying the dual upgrade for my printer, and they sent me the attached photo. I didn’t buy the part since it looked… “poorly engineered”? However, if the DLT-600 part looks better I encourage you to buy that printer - He3D is a very kind and supportive manufacturer, just drop them a line if you have any question!
ldanut
3
i know kossel xl should have better design since it sould use hiwin linear rails and it should be more rigid. I hate those shower well rolls carriage that he3d has. From my experience in two years i rarely printed with two colors. Its more useful to print with special suport material. Also I know is problematic to align perfectly the extruders in delta configuration.
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He3D DTL 600 is essentially a Kossel.
I would go for a Kossel XL and buy one of these: Chimera+ – E3D Online
I own a Kossel XL and after some small upgrades (a spool holder on top and some right angle brackets to make the frame stiffer) I get very good quality prints. My next upgrade will be to add an acrylic box around it and then I will experiment with the Chimera.
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Since these are both kits I’m going to assume you don’t mind tinkering…which is a very good thing if you decide to take on the upgrade yourself 
It depends more on your ability to manipulate the firmware associated with your printer you decide to buy. If it’s running Marlin it’s pretty easy to add the second extruder. If it’s running something else the difficultly level could go up and make the He3D DTL 600 more attractive. I would start there, the results could make that choice for you.
If changing firmware is not an issue you could buy Kossel Xl, play with it for a while and decide if *dual extruders are really something you need/want!?!?
As far as the mechanical accepts of it, do a little research, see if there are effectors already designed to accommodate the Hotends and printers of your choice. Speaking of Hotends, I run the E3D Chimera/Cyclop Hotend, it is by far the most compact and user friendly dual Hotend I’ve used…so easy to set Hotend hieght!! The fact you’ll be running Bowden extruders makes this a bit easier as well, just pick which every one you like adn print one, or two I prefer the belt drive extruders, much quieter and no gears to wear out…the belt a pulleys seems to last forever.
*Also consider why you want a dual extruder in the first place…do you want to run dual color prints, run dissimilar materials (ABS-PLA-Nijaflex), run a dissolvable (sp) support material??? All of these varying aspects could change your mind about the DE. I thought I would love it, but it can a bit more of a pain than it’s worth sometimes. Now I find myself either runnign a single or when running dual I use most often run two size nozzles, a .3mm and a .8mm. I can use the .8mm nozzle to really speed up prints that require less detail, and the .3mm when the detail matters. Run a slicer like Simplify3D and you can change the setting throughout the print.
These are of coarse just one man’s opinions gained from his own experiences…others my think very differently, ultimately the choice is yours…either way you will love 3D Printing
Sonny
I can’t say I have an opinion on your dual extruder problem (though all repraps should, in theory, be upgrade-able), but if you’re looking for a big delta, then have you considered the Rostock Max? It is certainly more expensive than what you were looking at, but it has a WAY larger print volume (28cmx28cmx37.5cm, over the Kossel XL’s 17.5x17.5x30). I’ve also heard that some people have been able to push the print speed to 1000mm/s by sacrificing the print quality, and pushing the stepper drivers.
My initial question is why do you want a Delta? I pondered the question as well for quite a while before I bought my first printer but ended up getting a dual extruder Prusa i3 and so far I think I made the right decision. By going with a lower cost printer (about $300 US) it has allowed me to learn about 3D printing without investing a lot of money. The build plate is bigger than any Delta that I can afford and the quality of print is adequate and is fun to research how to improve. I have made a few improvements already and plan a few more in the near future.
As I mentioned, I purchased a dual extruder but since then I have removed one of the extruders to simplify things. It seems there is a lot to learn about just printing in general before getting fancy (i.e. learn to walk before you run). I think most printers can be easily upgraded from single to dual extruder since it’s mostly a matter of adding the hardware and adjusting the BIOS (Marlin in my case). If you buy a single extruder printer you are not locked in. Happy printing!
pakman
8
Dual extrusion on a Delta? Why would you do that? Most people who want large deltas also find that to fill that volume, they need to print fast. And fast means less weight. Have you checked out thews’ big Delta?
Hello ,i have 2 kossels maxi self made . ask one to print the parts and start with single extruder .
when firm with the stuff ,then you go an level higher , take then dual ,that’s how i did .
i had bought the dual from begiining and couldn’t work with it, because the experience failed .
now i have done all the fails and learns with single extruder , i have no problems with the dual ,and still learning .
3d printing is not plug and play .
It is more like, drive an car , learn how and off you go , most people want to go drive in 5th gaer . try that with a car , then you see what i mean .
good it takes time, but you will love it when the prints went out good ,and not bad.
I print now for 4 jaers ,and can say i have a bit experience .
take the kossel and start with that .
And learn to make models autodesk 360 fusion is a very good start. and free .
123 autodesk , this is more for kids .
greeting mike
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I would go directly for the He3D. Dual heads on deltas are a delicate upgrade. slight missalignements in arms, curviness in rods, or just all sorts of calibration issues would lead to the effector to not always stand perfectly horizontal. for a dual head system, that would be a catastrophy. So I would directly go for the genuine dual. Saw it at 599$ here: http://www.reprapmall.com/index.php?route=product/product&product\_id=117 :-), I suppose you need to pay shipping thus making it 700$ 
JRD10
11
Dual is pretty hard. I managed to do dual pretty reliably but eventually I didn’t do it any more. I just had a short spate of parts that couldn’t be that easily built without dissolvable supports. The problem with dissolvable is it’s still such a pain to clean up.
Dual colors is kind of nice but getting there can be tough. I didn’t like that many of the techniques involved a purge tower or built a shield envelope which wasted a lot of plastic doing so.
I don’t have any experience with delta but I agree that alignment could be a delicate issue with this type of model. All the more reason to start out with a RepRap style like the Prusa. Very forgiving and there’s huge community out there if you have trouble.
I started with a Kossel (that’s “RepRap style” too…) kit as my first printer, and I have learned a lot thanks to the challenges it put me through. After all, I could say that it was no more difficult to begin with than any other printer… The only annoying thing might be the towers offset calibration and smooth rod length, but a z-probe solves all of these problems automatically and in no time!
I really don’t understand why everyone hates deltas so much as first printers.
Cool. So what are you printing with now? Also, what is a z-probe? I don’t think i’ve heard that term before. If it helps with calibration then I’m going to look into it. Thanks.
I’m still printing with it: in fact, I’m printing the pieces to build another delta whenever I have some spare time
A z-probe is basically a switch attached to the effector that helps you leveling the bed and taking other measurements. For example, I’m using this effector to use the nozzle itself as the probe: when it touches the bed, the switch triggers. The same operations could be done using Force Sensing Resistors underneath the bed, but they are a bit complicated to handle in my opinion. You can find more information about z-probing in the Repetier-Firmware documentation.
Obviously this technique isn’t limited to deltas! I’ve seen many cartesians spotting it.
Very cool. Looks like I have some research to do. Thanks!
I have a been building custom Kossel XL’s and recently added an aluminum magnetic end effector and dual extruder (E3d v6) to my current build. Configuring a second extruder is relatively simple and can be done quite affordably. I did have to make shims out of thin metal to bring the nozzles to the same height. Effector was poorly machined. I also second that the z-probe helps a ton with calibration. Keep in mind small motors will loose steps at higher speeds because of the end effector weight / momentum. I am using 24v and nema 17 x 45mm @ 0.8a- microstepping 1/32. Motors run quietly at 55 degrees and no lost steps. Not the setup that would come with a $450 kit. 12v and nema17 x 32mm would definitely require active cooling on the motors and drivers. Probably loud too.
I didn’t read too many of the other posts, but I have an i3 that started with single extruder then moved to dual. I really like having the option to do dual, but I’ve had it for 6 months and only used it once… It’s a huge pain to get perfectly aligned and the software is also kind of a pain for getting it to do what you want. If you do go dual, spend the money on authentic e3d v6’s, and but o both at the same time, it will save you lots of headache… I promise
JothamB
19
You are looking at the cheap chinese kit, he3d. There are some forum posts and build logs out there. It may or may not be worth buying a more expensive kit depending on how much time and effort you want to throw at it and how serious you are about getting print results. Whatever you do, get something with a solid frame, and a decent linear motion system. On a side note the He3d’s dual extruder is placed so far away from the effector you may see backlash going around corners. From here I’d go read some reviews and make a decision with them in mind.
Thank you guys so much for all the input. This definitely gives me a lot of insight and plenty to consider.
I like the delta partially out of personal preference to the alien/insect nature of the machine, and partly because it’s supposed to have better detail.
As for the dual extrusion preference, I hope to use it for printing more complex devices composed of various materials, such as rubber gaskets, grippers, treads. Or possibly with conductive filament to print circuit boards or devices with printed-in wires.
