Dual is pretty hard. I managed to do dual pretty reliably but eventually I didn’t do it any more. I just had a short spate of parts that couldn’t be that easily built without dissolvable supports. The problem with dissolvable is it’s still such a pain to clean up.
Dual colors is kind of nice but getting there can be tough. I didn’t like that many of the techniques involved a purge tower or built a shield envelope which wasted a lot of plastic doing so.
I don’t have any experience with delta but I agree that alignment could be a delicate issue with this type of model. All the more reason to start out with a RepRap style like the Prusa. Very forgiving and there’s huge community out there if you have trouble.
I started with a Kossel (that’s “RepRap style” too…) kit as my first printer, and I have learned a lot thanks to the challenges it put me through. After all, I could say that it was no more difficult to begin with than any other printer… The only annoying thing might be the towers offset calibration and smooth rod length, but a z-probe solves all of these problems automatically and in no time!
I really don’t understand why everyone hates deltas so much as first printers.
Cool. So what are you printing with now? Also, what is a z-probe? I don’t think i’ve heard that term before. If it helps with calibration then I’m going to look into it. Thanks.
I’m still printing with it: in fact, I’m printing the pieces to build another delta whenever I have some spare time
A z-probe is basically a switch attached to the effector that helps you leveling the bed and taking other measurements. For example, I’m using this effector 7 to use the nozzle itself as the probe: when it touches the bed, the switch triggers. The same operations could be done using Force Sensing Resistors underneath the bed 1, but they are a bit complicated to handle in my opinion. You can find more information about z-probing in the Repetier-Firmware documentation 2.
Obviously this technique isn’t limited to deltas! I’ve seen many cartesians spotting it.
Very cool. Looks like I have some research to do. Thanks!
I have a been building custom Kossel XL’s and recently added an aluminum magnetic end effector and dual extruder (E3d v6) to my current build. Configuring a second extruder is relatively simple and can be done quite affordably. I did have to make shims out of thin metal to bring the nozzles to the same height. Effector was poorly machined. I also second that the z-probe helps a ton with calibration. Keep in mind small motors will loose steps at higher speeds because of the end effector weight / momentum. I am using 24v and nema 17 x 45mm @ 0.8a- microstepping 1/32. Motors run quietly at 55 degrees and no lost steps. Not the setup that would come with a $450 kit. 12v and nema17 x 32mm would definitely require active cooling on the motors and drivers. Probably loud too.
I didn’t read too many of the other posts, but I have an i3 that started with single extruder then moved to dual. I really like having the option to do dual, but I’ve had it for 6 months and only used it once… It’s a huge pain to get perfectly aligned and the software is also kind of a pain for getting it to do what you want. If you do go dual, spend the money on authentic e3d v6’s, and but o both at the same time, it will save you lots of headache… I promise
You are looking at the cheap chinese kit, he3d. There are some forum posts and build logs out there. It may or may not be worth buying a more expensive kit depending on how much time and effort you want to throw at it and how serious you are about getting print results. Whatever you do, get something with a solid frame, and a decent linear motion system. On a side note the He3d’s dual extruder is placed so far away from the effector you may see backlash going around corners. From here I’d go read some reviews and make a decision with them in mind.
Thank you guys so much for all the input. This definitely gives me a lot of insight and plenty to consider.
I like the delta partially out of personal preference to the alien/insect nature of the machine, and partly because it’s supposed to have better detail.
As for the dual extrusion preference, I hope to use it for printing more complex devices composed of various materials, such as rubber gaskets, grippers, treads. Or possibly with conductive filament to print circuit boards or devices with printed-in wires.
Have you thought about the calibration involved with a delta machine? It is quiet tricky and can be very time consuming. The kossel Xl’s don’t have fantastic frame rigidity so I would recommend bracing the frame. You can get by without it but I definitely recommend it, especially if you’re throwing more weight around with a second hotend on the print head.
Have you read up on the limitations of running a delta from an Arduino? (or any other electronics which use the Atmel2560 chip). Delta’s offer a large build area for the price and very good speed (given a good frame or else you lose accuracy). The catch with delta’s is calibration, and the load on the microcontroller which has to process all the motor steps to a non linear coordinate system, which will lead to slow downs unless you get something faster, eg a smoothieboard which has an 32 bit ARM processor that runs at 120MHz. Much faster than the arduino’s 8 bit Atmel2560 processor with its 16kb of ram at 16MHz.
Alternatively you could build an prusa i3 type machine. They are very easy to calibrate and rather easy to put more hotends onto.
I agree on the visual part, Delta’s look way cooler than cartesians! None of the jerky back and forth movement, all just smooth travel around the bed.
It doesn’t matter, just get in on the ground floor and start printing . I have two MakerBot Fifth Gens, and two self made Deltas. I learn a lot from both, not to mention the others ive played and experimented with.
