ABS 1st layer adhesion issues to raft

Refilame · 2015-09-13T20:27:43.000Z

I am using ABS.

Refilame · 2015-09-13T20:30:14.000Z

I don’t use hairspray, but I do use another alternative method. I have Kapton tape. It isn’t the base layer though. I usually have a raft on my prints to deal with that issue. The bad adhesion is happening on top of the raft. I thought it was strange since it is filament on filament adhesion.

Darthpistachio · 2015-09-13T20:35:47.000Z

I would suggest that he plastic is not hot enough to get a good adhesion on the first layer - up the temperature and drop the cooling - ABS especially will not like to be excessively cooled - also ensure that your slicer is laying down a good layer thickness on the first layer.

Darthpistachio · 2015-09-13T20:36:13.000Z

I would suggest that he plastic is not hot enough to get a good adhesion on the first layer - up the temperature and drop the cooling - ABS especially will not like to be excessively cooled - also ensure that your slicer is laying down a good layer thickness on the first layer.

engineerboy · 2015-09-13T22:01:00.000Z

When was the last time you replaced the Kapton tape? I had the same issue with ABS not sticking. So, I cut out the sections where I was printing (basically in the center of the bed) and put on some new tape. Eureka! Even the crappy ABS from G Star works.

Rostockmaker · 2015-09-13T22:17:55.000Z

If you are printing abs turn the fan off. If you are printing pla drop that temp to about 200. Also I found with my delta 80% of issues are to do with height calibration. Regards Andrew

tassenberg · 2015-09-14T09:12:55.000Z

Hi,

I had same problems until I had to chance the surface to buildtalk, also make sure the surface plate is leveled.

Best Regards

TheOriginalGOC · 2015-09-14T15:43:50.000Z

Hi Dalvin,

- If your getting good adhesion between your bed and the raft; I will assume good tower calibration has been completed. If the raft is printing & laying down well; I will also assume temperatures and cooling are adequate. If the previous assumptions are correct, then the problem should be within your print speeds and raft settings.

- I use Repetier host and the CuraEngine. Within the Slicer configurations there are raft settings that will adjust how much contact will be made between the layers. Adjusting the “Air Gap Layer 0” will adjust the contact specifically between the part and the raft. If this is already 0, then you will have to adjust the Interface layer Thickness. Also take into account how much gap you have in your pathing on the “Interface Line Width”, too much and you get a waved surface layer that’s hard to adhere to. I sometimes skip the surface layer by turning that setting to 0 and shrinking up the “Interface line width”.

- As a tip for any adhesion issues slowing down your print speeds will help.

ryanmac · 2015-09-14T16:41:49.000Z

I use ABS slurry (acetone and ABS) as a base coat on the print bed, applied with a brush. In my experience it works the best to get the best first layer adhesion, better than hair spray and tape. The only downside is that its messy when you want to clean the plate due to all the flakes.

Also, theres no reason to have your layer cooling fans on for ABS, so you can disable those. Make sure your first layer thickness is around 40-50% of your nozzle diameter. My settings for ABS are 95 on the heated bed and 235 on the nozzle (slightly higher because I print using a 0.35mm nozzle and 0.15mm first layer height).

Neptune · 2015-09-14T17:45:15.000Z

Sounds like the temp is too cool…turn off the fan completely also, that could be the complete source of your problem. With abs if you are getting bad stringing then you are too hot, reduce the temp until most stringing goes away and you have good layer adhesion. Depending on the filament manufacturer this can very by more than 10 degrees C.

Let us know how it goes…and get rid of the raft if you don’t need it for bed adhesion.

Jeff Gould

3Dog Modeling

ktoth29 · 2015-09-14T18:28:28.000Z

It seems to me that you did the opposite of what you should, poor adhesion is generally a result of the filament cooling before it bonds to the lower layer. I.e. you should raise your extrusion temp and lower your fan.

Botzlab · 2015-09-15T02:36:37.000Z

printbed @ 110 and extrusion temp at 235 with no fan, using a glue stick coat along with proper bed level shall for sure help.

attached few Eg here.

PhotoGrid_1438886793013.jpg2048×2622 1.73 MB

Refilame · 2015-09-15T05:25:56.000Z

I just recalibrated my z-height and that seemed to really help my adhesion issue. I also lowered my cooling temps back to factory settings (0). I am using a .2 mm layer height on most of my prints. Do you have any advice on when I should change this setting?

Thanks.

Refilame · 2015-09-15T05:40:25.000Z

I was experimenting with some new filament I got from winbo tech, so I changed a few of my settings around to try and fix my stringing issue. I have now set my retraction to 8 mm, my extrusion temp to 228C, and my bed temperature to 100. Does that sound like a better direction to go in?

Thanks.

Refilame · 2015-09-15T09:24:54.000Z

I replaced the section a few days ago and I was still getting the same results… Have you ever used filament from Winbo-Tech before? That is the filament that started this issue.

Jshapiro11 · 2015-09-16T02:08:08.000Z

Hairspray will make the difference. Kaptin tape, doesn’t work for me.

RIGID3D · 2015-09-16T14:38:51.000Z

Dear Dalvin,

Forget everything you learnt from printing PLA. ABS is a hard material to print. It is very hard to print ABS with a printer without a totally closed print chamber.

What you can do:

1. Set the bed temperature to 100 - 110 C

2. Extrude at a higher temperature. We mostly extrude at 235 C but this depends on the filament you use. Lower temperatures decreases layer adhesion as it is in your case.

3. If there is any, shutdown any air condition in the room. Close the windows.

4. Do not use any nozzle fan. Shut it off. It is for printing PLA.

5. Apply a fresh layer of Elmer’s glue stick or UHU glue stick (also TESA glue stick works) to your print bed.

6. Do not expect a succesful print of a big object with ABS withou a closed chamber.

Hope it can help. Especially items 2, 3 and 4 may solve your problem.

Refilame · 2015-09-17T03:05:05.000Z

I have my bed temp set at 100. For some reason my extruder head will only go up to 230C. That is better than 228C though… I am really going to consider creating a plexiglass enclosure for my Orion. I had a feeling that that was the case. I have been experimenting and printing bigger object and that is when I am seeing the adhesion issue. I have done all of the other steps. Thank you so much for your advice!

- Dalvin

ktoth29 · 2015-09-17T14:37:09.000Z

I had a similar problem, trying to break through the 230 barrier after I installed a E3d. The firmware limits the max extruder temp because the plastic part of the J head will melt at 240.

John_38 · 2015-09-18T11:45:20.000Z

I agree, this is by far the best method for getting good layer adhesion. I actually have two build plates, one reserved for general use, one reserved for Kapton tape and ABS slurry. I took a nice (relatively) sealed glass bottle, cut some strips of filament and dropped them in side, then poured some acetone in. I keep it on a shelf and just slather it on if I need to print in ABS.

One thing to note is that it is better to apply the acetone slurry before you heat the bed. If you apply it while hot, it causes the slurry to bubble before the acetone evaporates, and the ABS left behind becomes pitted.