Hello, in our Service Bureau we had first the 460 plus, Then the 4500 (the first version) and now the 660 pro.
we had a lot of problems with the 4500, most of them solved with the updates, in the beginning it was impossible to finish big jobs. All the CJP family needs a very accurate maintaince process,machines have to Be clean but with the 4500 it’s very difficult beacause of the materials. Printhead is very expencive and it’seasier to damage it with failures, this kind of problems are not present in the 660 pro beacause it uses more fluid binders, powder runs better in the overflows and printhead are simple HP 11, easy to change. 660 pro is a lot faster then the 4500, materials are less expencive ( the half!), Platform is bigger and prototypes have more resolution and better colors. This are probabily the reason why 3D systems doesn’t produce the 4500 anymore. The only real advantage of the 4500 is the hardness of the material just out of the machine but only after long and expencive curing Times.
in our opinion the 660 pro is better, a stable and affordable machine, faster and productive, i hope this Could Be useful for you. Bye
We have been running a 650 (660) since 2010, we have found it to be extremely reliable provided certain key maintenance is taken care of. Our machines run daily.
We have had huge amounts of problems with CJP printers. Some of our partners/competitors experience the same issues. Around 50% of parts are ruined or not complete. We are facing similar problems so we feel your pain
This is Kurt from SDV Digital Manufacturing. We’re a service disabled veteran owned company and a 3D Systems reseller out of Elyria, Ohio. I’d like to try and help you out with your system if I can and get you up and running. Please call me at 440-822-5068 so we can discuss what’s going on with your system. I’d love to help any of you having problems with your 3D Systems printers.
Just as FYI, parts off the 660 “can” be made to be as strong if not stronger than what most of you are thinking. I’d imagine that most of you are using the “crazy glue” cyanoacrylate color bond. Which only penetrates about 4mm-5mm into the model.
I’d recommend going out and actually trying other liquids that have as low of a viscosity that will make the models even stronger. Hell you can use a 2 part epoxy or even a thremocure material like XLA Form (This is at least 5+ years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJauNmL9vmw 9) as alternatives infiltrants. Because these liquids take longer to cure the plaster continues to absorb even further. I mean how many of you have a convection oven to even dry the models? Don’t think that letting the model cure in the powder in the machine is the same as just leaving it out and immediately infiltrating. It’s not the same, it doesn’t feel the same and it most certainly doesn’t absorb the infiltrant the same. (depending on wall thickness).
It really bugs me that the perception of the models off the x60’s are that they are fragile and will always break. Do your homework, if the model is too fragile to pull out use the option to “make fixture” found under the tools menu. Then you can pull the model out by the fixture which ups the survival rate if you can’t get it out otherwise. Is this extra work, yes, but where’s it written than making models is supposed to be like microwaving popcorn…
AIS has a customer running a 660 24/7 since November with no service calls. We may also be able to help you with service on your 4500 if you are in the SoCal, NV, AZ or UT area. 702-951-4247 x288
AIS has a customer running a 660 24/7 since November with no service calls. We may also be able to help you with service on your 4500 if you are in the SoCal, NV, AZ or UT area. 702-951-4247 x288
Hi we have a 660 and It is very riable. Unfortunately we are closing our 3D area for other problems and we would like to sell it. If are you interested in, please let us know.
The 660 is a good machine. You will get your share of errors so be prepared to learn the in’s and out’s of the machine. The powder machines require regular upkeep and experience pays with this equipment. Lots of benefits once you get it down in speed, volume and color If you do not need color or speed switch to an FDM machine from Stratasys. It’s all application dependent.
Thanks to everyone for the advice, even those who don’t seem to own the printer! It seems we are not alone when it comes to our 4500. We have a range of errors, rarely the same and most seem to be caused by changes of the design between the 660 and 4500. IMHO, it seems the 4500 took a step back, rather than forward. The cleaning station is more basic, positioned badly and fails easily, due to spilled powder. There was a bad error in the original firmware which allowed the machine to overfill itself and block the vacuum. The head is fragile and ours became damaged very early on, unlike the 660 which costs buttons to replace, the 4500 is thousands. We are currently trying to get 3D systems to replace this on warranty, but we may be in for a legal fight on that one. They recently updated the firmware and now we constantly are having Binder Level Low warnings, when clearly there is plenty. This one seems to be model specific and presumably caused by a bug in the firmware. Add in the problems with Blacks and the cost and problems with the powder and I think we are at the point of giving up on the machine. I could go on, but to cut the story short there, the 660 seems the better choice!!!
