Opinions on the Raise3D N2 or N2 Plus

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T11:53:58.000Z

Looking for opinions - criticisms on the Raise3D N2/N2 Plus.

Considering getting one. Looking for large, enclosed build volume. Direct drive, heated bed and variable speed parts cooling fan.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions on a comparable printer. Also looking at the Guider 2.

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T12:58:32.000Z

Hey wirlybird, happy to answer as a 3rd party who also sells the units as a reseller. Depending on your needs and budget, it might be a perfect printer for you but that’s up to the application.

For the build volume, I’d say its the best bang for your buck printer out there. It has some notable sacrifices to keep the cost down, particular the lack of a bed probe and a heavy drive carriage. With that said, I LOVE my Bondtech upgraded N2+. It’s fantastic, especially if you decide to go with a wider nozzle to make bigger prints run faster due to the additional torque. It’s nearly a $200 upgrade but it’s definitely worth it, but you’d be fine to stick with stock parts for a while.

User experience is pretty straight forward as there is no assembly, the touchscreen is an understated gem. Makes the printer process remote via wifi easy. What I don’t like about the N2/N2+ is the bed. It’s over-engineered with the 16 or so bed screws. They do a good job laser leveling the machine before it arrives but it’s just good to take note that adjusting the bed beyond leveling it is a (rare) pain.

The key thing to keep in mind is material options tend to lessen the larger your prints are. Nylon, ABS, and various others are known to shrink or otherwise distort at larger sizes. Just something to keep in mind from someone who’s done this for nearly a decade now. Your fine with good quality PLA, PC or TPU for sure though!

stevec121 · 2017-10-18T13:54:05.000Z

I’m in line with bvandenbroek - only thing I would say is the stock parts cooling arrangement is poor - uncontrolled since its on all the time (subset of the hot end cooling arrangement). That said there are 3rd party cooling solutions you can print/build that will do the job - there is a spare socket on the board to accommodate the fan to give full control via GCode or the tuning touch screen.

I fully agree with the Bondtech upgrade view - very much worthwhile - the stock extruder isn’t bad but no where near as good as the Bondtech solution. I also use Olsson Ruby nozzles due to the amount of abrasive filament I use.

All in all the Raise3D’s are a superb machine ( I have 2) and well worth the money - mine make me money week-in week-out so I cannot complain. Raise3D support has proved excellent in the UK

Rada3Dnl · 2017-10-18T13:57:14.000Z

I love my N2+. I have used, owned and repaired many machines and brands so i can compare it to many others.

The pro and cons:

Pro:

-Big

-Print quality (except the ringing with a stock dual extruder)

-Build quality

-Touchscreen (i was sceptical but i really like it)

-Silent stepper-drivers

-The Raise3D slicer is good, i use it 50% of the time and the other 50% i use Simplify3D (better support out of the box but maybe it needs some tweaking)

Cons:

-No auto calibration. This is unpractical if you switch often between materials with different bed temperatures.

-Dual extruder is heavy. This causes ringing in your prints. Take one motor off or/and change to a Bondtech extruder

-Noisy fans that doesn’t switch of after printing.

I now have one N2+ but i will buy another one soon. Maybe this will be the N1 or N2.

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T14:07:22.000Z

Great responses everyone, I’m in agreement with all of it so far. If anyone needs more local support and are in the east coast US, my shop is in Kentucky and can assist in getting started regardless of the FDM you choose. I know Tulsa isn’t exactly close wirlybird but we’re here if you need anything. There’s no price difference when buying from a reseller so if you want to support us, here’s my site: www.artlab3dprinting.com You seem pretty familiar with the tech already wirlybird but local makerspaces are also great resources for getting started.

makrbrands · 2017-10-18T14:20:28.000Z

This is a fantastic machine - Much more of a production fdm machine that is very reliable. Also - the company has phenomenal support. Furthermore, compare warranties.

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T16:30:52.000Z

Thanks for the input so far. Here are some observations/concerns/questions I have. P.S. I am also looking at the Flashforge Guider 2 and Ultimaker is out due to Bowden and 3mm filament.

My goal on a purchase is a larger format, enclosed printer that is not going to be a problem child, it is going to be working and needs to go from print to print without much or any fuss or fiddling!

I mainly print PLA, PETG and ABS but do need the high temp abilities on the extruder. The Guider 2 is looking like a solid machine of similar size but for a grand less than the N2.

Ok, question time!

The bed:

Bed leveling seems to be an issue when you get to larger prints. A common thread is that it is ok for “normal” prints in the middle but as you get to larger prints it is not so good and needs adjusting which appears to be a pain. This printer seems to be a perfect candidate for auto leveling similar to what the Prusa MK2 uses.

Also, I assume the buildtac can be replaced with a PEI sheet? I am not a fan of buildtac.

The extruders:

First word on the extruders seems to be “replace them”. Disappointing on a $3k machine! Maybe they are not so bad?

It also seems the gantry is heavy and not well supported with the single rod setup. Very likely contributing to ringing!

Fans:

It seems that the part cooling fan is also the extruder cooling fan and is on all the time. This is an issue for sure. I guess you can put a parts cooling fan on another port on the board and gain full, variable speed control - yes, no?! A controllable, variable speed parts fan is a big plus.

Have to use Ideamaker for some features such as load gcode over WIFI? I use S3D.

I read that the filament bay is tight and some have found their spools won’t fit.

Not trying to beat up this printer but I am ready to buy and have it down to 2-3 and need to make a choice.

I run six different printers and have built a couple so tinkering is not a big deal but I don’t want to have to tune it constantly!!

I read that if you buy through a re-seller then you must go to them for support and if parts are needed you go through the re-seller adding additional wait time. Maybe not a big deal but sometimes this can leave the user with little to no support.

Thanks again and I am sure more questions to come.

Rada3Dnl · 2017-10-18T17:02:00.000Z

1. Leveling is not a big problem, good is good. Only the hight calibration when switching to different temperatures.

2. PEI is fantastic. I have one on all my machines except the Zortrax.

3. Yes, the extruder is unacceptable for the price of the machine. The weight is the biggest issue in my opinion. Remove one motor/hotend and it’s much lighter.

4. Fans…I added an extra fan for the model cooling. I hope they come with an update to make the adjustable an make it possible to switch them of.

5. I don’t use WIFI. The USB stick works very easy with S3D but you wouldnt have the fancy picture of the model during printing.

6. Most of my spools fit and i have a Polymaker Polybox drybox for big spools.

7. I never tinker my Raise. Removed one extruder, added a fan(duct) and placed a PEI sheet. After that it’s plug and play.
8. Some resellers are fast some are not…

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T17:10:22.000Z

To answer some of your questions wirlybird:

--

“Bed leveling seems to be an issue when you get to larger prints. A common thread is that it is ok for “normal” prints in the middle but as you get to larger prints it is not so good and needs adjusting which appears to be a pain. This printer seems to be a perfect candidate for auto leveling similar to what the Prusa MK2 uses.”

--

It’s actually dependent on the bed material, not so much the actual bed level. The bed arrives (in my opinion) extremely level and works on day 1 without issue. The bed glass is very uniform but nothing is absolutely perfect so its often recommended the raft function be used. I used to hate rafts but now I found them to be the best security on larger prints. They remove extremely easily too. I made a life size Lincoln death mask and at 0:44 you can see me remove it with ease: - YouTube
--

--
_"_Also, I assume the buildtac can be replaced with a PEI sheet? I am not a fan of buildtac."
--

Yup.
--

--
“It seems that the part cooling fan is also the extruder cooling fan and is on all the time. This is an issue for sure. I guess you can put a parts cooling fan on another port on the board and gain full, variable speed control - yes, no?! A controllable, variable speed parts fan is a big plus.”
--
This is a bit of a misconception. The single extruder version adds a large adjustable fan but the dual extruder version instead relies solely on fan covers to adjust the amount of air on the print. It works but would like to see this tweaked in a later version.
--

--
_"_First word on the extruders seems to be “replace them”. Disappointing on a $3k machine! Maybe they are not so bad?

It also seems the gantry is heavy and not well supported with the single rod setup. Very likely contributing to ringing!"
--
I personally would attribute it more to this being a well-budgeted 3D printer. The carriage is heavy as is but that’s only true on the dual extruder version. Even the bondtech dual mod for this puts the secondary extruder as a bowden, which is a neat compromise but not ideal for everyone. You really don’t need a dual extruder if your goal is big prints done fast. The Bondtech recommendation is just so you can get the most out of such a large printer. The stock .4mm nozzles are high quality but we’re talking about beefing the machine up even beyond the quality it comes in, not necessarily that it’s strictly a negative. Hope that makes sense.
--

--
"Not trying to beat up this printer but I am ready to buy and have it down to 2-3 and need to make a choice.

I run six different printers and have built a couple so tinkering is not a big deal but I don’t want to have to tune it constantly!!"
--
I also run a print service, five Raise3D N2/N2+s and various kits like a delta, bukobot, etc. These are easily the most reliable machines I have, the tinkering is almost entirely optional aside from user error.
--

--
_"_I read that if you buy through a re-seller then you must go to them for support and if parts are needed you go through the re-seller adding additional wait time. Maybe not a big deal but sometimes this can leave the user with little to no support."
--

This I can answer! The person who you buy from does call in your warranty if needed or otherwise provides casual support. You can order replacement parts on whatever website you choose, it’s the same price regardless but I’ve never heard of a client being turned away with a legitimate warranty dispute.

Hope that helps!

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T17:49:45.000Z

Thanks for the info. I am thinking more that single extruder is really all I need especially if the second will be a Bowden! I have three dual extruder machines and have rarely done a dual print. I actually am setting up my MK2 with the 4 material/color add on once I get the new MK3.

So the single does have a variable speed parts fan? Or is it at least possible to add? I actually use the fan on some prints for specific cooling such as the last couple layers of supports. Helps the supports come off better.

How about the slicer? Seems a bunch of things only are available if you use it as opposed to S3D. How much of the display features/monitoring will still work using something like S3D to slice?

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T17:55:17.000Z

I imagine as long as the bed is “flat”, not warped, leveling isn’t too bad once you get it figured out.

I am leaning heavily toward a single extruder now. I have no use for a second one that is Bowden!!

I like the USB stick idea. SD cards fall apart on heavy use. I actually use wifi SD cards and map them as a drive in Windows. Slice and save to the remote card. Works slick!

Does seem a shame to have that fancy display and not utilize most of it!!

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T18:03:03.000Z

Forgot to ask. Your price is the same as the Raise site (!!) but how about shipping? I am much more inclined to use a more “local” vendor and especially since you jumped in to answer questions. They say they have a facility in CA but how much does a warehouse help you out!

Also, how long does a N2 (not +) take to get?

I just don’t think I can justify the additional cost on the additional height and may never really use it. I don’t have a lot of call for print that tall.

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T18:04:32.000Z

Concerning the screen, you’d still be using it… just not over WiFi or to view the 2D still image of your print. You can even just install Ideamaker just to WiFi connect the machine for remote control. Really are not missing much regardless of slicer. I like Ideamaker, it’s not as fussy or ugly as others so it integrates easily into workshops/office/libraries.

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T18:10:40.000Z

No problem man! Shipping is included in the cost of the machine anywhere in mainland US. You’re good!

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T18:25:52.000Z

How long does it take to get the N2 after it is ordered? Once I order I get impatient!!

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T18:30:13.000Z

About 2 to 3 weeks usually rarely more unless the shipping carrier runs into an issue. We’ve had that happen on a few remote locations.

wirlybird · 2017-10-18T21:09:08.000Z

I am curious why so long? Aren’t they in California? Just wondering!

stevec121 · 2017-10-18T22:06:31.000Z

All made in China mate

bvandenbroeck · 2017-10-18T22:21:43.000Z

They say they ship in 5 days after the order but they wait on banks to finish transfers first which can vary the transfer time + ground shipping to keep it affordable (was $250-$500+ back in the Kickstarter DHL days.)

Omojesu · 2017-10-19T02:32:45.000Z

You have already defined your criteria for selecting this printer which is similar to what encouraged me to select my N2

No real cause for regrets except I am not really convinced my double extruder is always helpful. For nstance: I used the power break facility yesterday night because I had to rush off somewhere. On resuming some seepage or oozing from the idle nozzle had pooled on to the print.

So on resuming, it began with a wild jolt That loosened the left extruder to the extent that it wobbled whilst printing thus marring the project.

Now that scenario is not peculiar to Raise 3d, it’s a great machine. I think with these modern printers with all their multi functions and variable settings the real issue is understanding the machine to get the best out of it.

That said, all my teething challenges revolved not around the machine or the Slicer but with the Touchpad Control system which, in the past could fail to pause, or switch off or respond to a command for temperature increase or x,y or z shift.

Otherwise, have fun. Had mine for 12 months and will buy the N2+