Getting rid of lines clearly showing

[Rens_Alkemade]

Hi all,

I am the proud owner of one of the first hellobeeprusa printers and I am now starting to get decent quality prints out of it :).

I have one issue that I would like to solve namely that the layers are still clearly visible in the end result of the print. I have seen several prints from other printers with the same issue but also several prints that did not have this issue. So I would like to know what I can do to minimalize the visibility of the layers in my prints ? Or have I reached the limits of the printer’s capacity?

I attached an image of one of the cubes I printed that shows what I mean.

thanks for the input!

Kind regards,

Rens Alkemade

[Diogo_Neves]

Hi Rens!

Congratulations for being an owner of a HelloBee Prusa! I’m pleased to say the same!

Can you share your printing configurations, more specifically the resolution of the print? I will print a test cube and share the result of my printer here. I’m trying to set it up as best as possible for high quality prints

[gabriela3d]

I like your style, Diogo

[MB3D]

Reducing the layer height will improove the surface quality the most (out of all the other settings you might want to change), however the lower the layers the more troubles you’ll be facing.

When printing with smaller layers there’s less material extruded (relative to time, given that nozzle diameter and printing speed are constant) so therefore the material in the nozzle will have more time to heat up, in some cases this can cause troubles. For example wood fibre composites can degrade in the nozzle, which results in a clogged nozzle that needs replacement. Not only such special filaments have problems with (very) low layer heights, also normal ones will heat up more then before and therefore the heat has more time to “travel” up the filament, making it soft where it shouldn’t be (at the drive gear from the extruder).

So there are some downsides in terms of “ease of use” when reducing the layer height, however that’d be the best way to reduce the visibility of layer lines.

I would recommend a nozzle diameter to layer height factor of 0,5-0,2 meaning, that you shouldn’t exceed the layerheight of 0,2mm when using a 0,4mm and also the layers shouldn’t be thinner then 0,08mm (this can alternate for certain printers and uses, but it’s, what worked best for me).

Try out 0,1mm (if you haven’t allready) and you should get decent results.

Maybe reduce the nozzle temperature a little bit to reduce the heat traveling up the filament.

Secondly you can adjust the extrusion multiplier (also called “flow rate”), which is a factor that’s applied to all extrusion values.

Meaning if you WOULD extrude 10mm of filament on a certain travel move you now extrude 10mm x flow rate.

If you reduce the flow rate you will extrude less material and vice versa. Be carefull with this setting, it can cause much trouble if dialed in too extremly.

Check out Thomas Sanladerer’s YouTube channel, he has a video relating this issue (look for “extruder setup” or something similar).

If you reduce the extrusion multiplier you may reduce the visual defect caused by the layers since less material is pushed out of the nozzle. I would print test cubes and change the flowrate in increments of 2%.

This means you start with one cube at 100%, the next one at 98%, …

It’d be best to see your settings as that may lead to more specific tips.

Good luck,

Marius Breuer

[boydconnor]

This is absolutely mind-blowing, Marius! How did you become so knowledgeable in… everything? It’s really awesome having you around here. I’ve certainly learned a lot myself. Do you have any tips for us noobs who know erm… jack schitt? How can we speed up the learning curve?

[MB3D]

70% experience

30% logical thinking

20% luck

… oh wait

Hmm how to speed up the learning is a good question

I’ve watched a lot of 3d printer guides (not reviews) as guides go into more detail about the 3d printer mechanics and working principles. Check out Thomas Sanladerer for example, also James Bruton does a lot of 3d printing, but doesn’t explain that much about the prints themself. Richard Horne (RichRap) is also very informative. I tried out a lot of materials and explore even more, therefore I know many material characteristics (when issues are caused by the material, not by the machine).

My first and only printer is the Leapfrog Creatr HS, which doesn’t cover it’s motion system, so i got a really deep insight into how the printer works.

Due to many engineering issues (just plain bad designs) I nearly completely disassembled the printer and assembeled it afterwards, I designed and produced a custom printhead out of aluminium and am working on a dual extrusion printhead with one bowden and one direct drive extruder.

I replaced the heated bed and the bowden extruders partially.

Basically any key part of the printer was disassembelled at least twice and sometimes (partially) replaced.

Very much observation and investigation is needed to get your experience.

Just starting a print and then rating it as “success” or “failure” will do less good to your learning curve.

Rather watch the first layer print, play around with ALL settings available and allways compare how the outcome changes.

Try to optimize the settings for your certain printjob and PRINT PRINT PRINT.

I now use an e3d chimera (e3d-online.com), which is an all metal hotend, meaning it has some benefits when printing really hot or exotic materials.

For example reading the material descriptions on Colorfabb will give you insight to which hotends are to prefer and which to stay away from (Copperfill should be printed on all metal hotends, …).

Compared to this check out the material description of Leapfrog’s “Hybrid” material, i guess it’s some kind of PET, but I have no clue so aside from the printer as the base of learning I wouldn’t advise Leapfrog.

I’m doing an apprenticeship to become an industrial mechanic and study mechanical engineering, which enables me to really dig deep into the mechanics and function of the printer. If you’re too scared to disassemble your printer that’s fine and this can end up pretty bad, so don’t force yourself to do it, just to learn something. However I would really advise that in order to learn how things are working and to understand what setting and part affects which other parts and settings.

May I ask since when you’re using your printer and what your base knowledge in terms of engineering (or similar) and 3d printing is? Also my father got a relatively large workshop, which is really helpful to have some tools to work with.

If you have specific questions regarding a part of the printer then feel free to ask, I’d be happy to help out wherever I can.

I’ll start a YouTube channel featuring 3d Hubs problems (so people having problems in talk), to have a source for topics.

Aside from covering all my 3d printer knowledge I would like to use this to have a collection of problems and solutions, however as you might have guessed doing an apprenticeship AND studying is very time consuming so don’t expect anything too early I’ll definitely keep you guys updated via 3dHubs

[MB3D]

Filaments Archives - Leapfrog 3D Printers

Please tell me the printing temperatures and specifications of those materials

Why would you print with Nylon and Sandstone and is there something to watch out for ?

Can PVA clogg up your nozzle if you leave it heated for some time (it can ruin nozzles within 5 minutes) ?

Is Sandstone material brittle can can crack when treated uncarefully ?

Should I dry Nylon to get all the moisture out, which would evaporize during the printing, resulting in prints that look like swiss cheese ?

How flexible is “Flex” and can I print it at normal speeds ? (no you can’t, it will clogg up in the bowden tube)

How consistent is the diameter of the filament (if it’s consistent at all) and will moisture affect PVA and Nylon ? (Yes, especially PVA)

Why is the weight of “MAXX PRO Flex” listed as 500g in the description and as 750g in the specifications ? (The spool will NEVER be as heavy as 250g)

Leapfrog hasn’t updated this part of their website since 1 year (I told them about this ~11 months ago).

[Diogo_Neves]

It should be possible to hit the “+1” button more than once! simply excellent!

[Diogo_Neves]

Well, thanks Gabriela! is there any particular detail about my “style”? I like to help others and share my enthusiast!

[Rens_Alkemade]

Wow! thanks for the amazing detail in your reply I will try all settings one by one I’ll post the results as soon as I have any(probably next week).

The Marvin keychain was printed @ 0.1

regards,

Rens

[eckerj]

Hi @Rens_Alkemade,

In addition to the other comments, it looks like your extruder stepper driver is putting out a tad too much voltage. I experience the same issue on my Solidoodle 2, but my stepper driver is near impossible to adjust accurately (trim pot is ultra sensitive).

(I’m referring to the slightly-angled vertical lines in the cubes above)

If you are able to, try tweaking the stepper driver voltage a little lower.

[Pyrophreek]

Agree with eckerj, those look like moire patterns due to incorrect stepper micro stepping voltage. I ended up replacing the 16x stepper driver with a 32x micro stepping driver, as well as upgrading the drive gear to the mk7(which has a smaller diameter, therefore more steps/mm increasing resolution) and I no longer see this even at 50 um layers. Solidoodle 2 printer experience. One other thing I noticed in your prints, it appears you may be over extruding a bit, so make sure your steps/mm is calibrated, and run some single wall cube prints to check extrusion width. Spiral vase mode in slicer makes for a great test, especially for your problem.