Why list printers at all?

imagine3dps · 2016-01-02T16:30:30.000Z

Honestly, why would you want to make a customer choose a printer??? If they knew or even cared about brands, they would most likely have their own. I really think a hub should only list the style of printing (FDM, SLA, SLS, etc.), the resolutions at which they can print, maximum build volume and materials. It would be up to us as experienced printers to choose the appropriate machine(s) for each job. The customers don’t know or even care what brand we use. It would also make it easier for us to maintain our sites. As it is, if you list three different FDM printers, you would have to set each one of them up with materials, resolutions, prices, etc. Any thoughts?

Steelmans · 2016-01-02T16:51:09.000Z

I agree with this and it relates to a post I just did.

markembling · 2016-01-02T17:05:05.000Z

I agree to a point as well. I think its worth having the information there (customers may be interested in the printers), but I think the hub ought to determine the actual printer(s) to be used. I have both a LulzBot Mini and TAZ 5 and have in the past swapped an order to the other printer if the chosen one is busy, or put both to work on the one order if there are multiple parts. It seems odd that the customer is forced to care - perhaps it ought to be optional, with the requirement that just the style of printer is selected (in my case, just FDM of course).

imagine3dps · 2016-01-02T17:24:45.000Z

I’ve done the same. Swap printers all the time depending on workload, size requirements, etc. Maybe the printer name could be informational only. Or really, you could just list the printers in your hub description if you think it matters.

keebie81 · 2016-01-02T17:30:20.000Z

Some people may be sending prints to hubs with a printer they are interested in purchasing to see which one prints better. Although the quality would also vary depending on who is running the printer.

imagine3dps · 2016-01-02T17:46:02.000Z

They could make the “add a printer” section at the hub level then. And make it optional. I still think we shouldn’t have to list materials, prices, etc. for all of our FDM printers separately.

Steelmans · 2016-01-02T18:12:43.000Z

Maybe the system should be reversed. Once you have added your printers for your hub…

Add materials (with colours) and then select which of your printers can use the material. This way you could select multiple printers for one material. For example ABS would list UP BOX, Up Mini and CEL Robox.

In other words material choice could be the top selection???

MB3D · 2016-01-02T20:48:47.000Z

that’s actually a really good idea you came up with, i like it!

Additionally the hubs could have tags like “FFF” “SLA” “SLS” that indicate the production methods available.

Whilst were at the topic I would like to point out that additionally to those changes there should be an option to list DIY printers with custom printing method (see FFF, SLA, …) and customly set build volume.

When you order parts from any manufacturer around the world you won’t need to tell them what machining has to be done with what machine, that’s totally up to the producer (unless only certain procedures enable needed quality or other specifications).

3DReneHub · 2016-01-02T21:19:31.000Z

I print most prints at a specific printer, the one with the best quality, also if the customer chose another one. Thats because I’ve heard that customers don’t know which printer to chose. Or that 3Dhubs chose one for them.

But as for price:

For some printers you can only use a special brand. And thats more, or less expensive then other brands. So, the choice of a printer can also be the price.

I prefer to have my printers and the materials I can pint with, listed.

Steve_Hartig · 2016-01-03T19:00:55.000Z

In general I would agree with this, but it doesn’t work for people who have a mix of professional and hobby-level machines. The difference between my Stratasys Dimension and my Mendel90 is more than just layer-thickness. The Stratasys is capable of producing form, fit and function prototypes thru FDM while the Mendel90, like most printers on this site, simply cannot do that. Abstracting what printers a hub has may simplify things in general, but it removes my ability to differentiate my professional capabilities from other hubs in the area.

Left · 2016-01-04T09:41:08.000Z

I think its necessary for the calculation, and to see wich printer suits best for a print job.

The model has to been able to print on a certain machine.

Also I think its inportant to see a difference in resolution between printers and the price set-up.

If you own different printers and materials, with different diameters, types of resin,… There could be a different price for each set-up and resolution - Also If you want to take a printer offline, its also easier to do. Its also helping 3d hubs to create some statistics

altometer · 2016-01-05T02:55:21.000Z

I’m finding that selecting printers is quite troublesome. In part, the decision appears to be for preventing fraud on the parts of the hubs.

I soon will have some rather large custom build sized printers. But, no way to tell the customer that.

Really, what I am more concerned with, is being able to have things like +$10 priority shipping, +$20 same-day guarantee, +$10 extrafine detail, etc available right from the purchase page.

In my experience, the customer only cares about the following: Color(s), Quality, fit. They don’t even care about removing the supports (assuming you properly calibrated and your supports are easily removable.)

We should be able to show example prints when a customer hovers over each selection. The easiest way to do this, is for 3D hubs to set quality standards further than just “100,200,300 etc micron” There needs to be a simple scale for the customer to understand what these different things mean.

Right now, 3Dhubs isn’t where I send my potential customers who know next-to-nothing about 3D printing. It’s where I send people who say they found a cool model on Thingiverse and want it printed.

imagine3dps · 2016-01-05T04:06:16.000Z

3d hubs’ statistics aren’t really about the customer, and they are a nice-to-have for us - maybe when you’re thinking about buying the next printer. But other than that, they aren’t essential for most of the transactions.

imagine3dps · 2016-01-05T04:07:27.000Z

That’s about the only time it makes sense.

Steve_Hartig · 2016-01-05T04:22:49.000Z

If Stratasys machines could be listed on the HD portion of the site, where I would argue they honestly belong, this would solve my contentions with the issue.

MB3D · 2016-01-05T07:04:35.000Z

You could use several technical values to determin the parts “quality”.

Just to name those that come to my mind right now:

Surface quality (smoothness)

Usually this is measured with very precise machines and is given in a variety of values.

You could measure the deepest groove with an infinitely thin needle, then (randomly) select a few ranges of groove depths that resemble the quality.

For example:

maximum 1mm deep grooves - quality: rough

maximum 0,5mm - quality: medium

maximum 0,2mm - quality: fine

maximum 0,1mm - quality: very fine

maximum 0,05mm - quality: superb

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Measurements (tolerances)

Print yourself some random objects of which you exactly know the measurements (ie from CAD files) and measure your prints with a caliper.

The customer could then select what level of tolerances is acceptable for his / her project.

For example:

maximum 2% alteration (ie 100mm +/-2mm) - quality: rough

…

instead of finding out appropriate tolerances you can also check out the general ISO tolerances (european standard): ISO 2768

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other tolerances

This is getting more and more complicated, but it would also be possible to judge the print quality with shape tolerances, for example by how much does a printed cube alterate from perfect rectangular corners, or how round is a printed cylinder and does it bend in any direction or is it perfectly symmetric to the center axis. Another thing would be: how flat is a printed side of a cube or whatever object ?

----

In the end it comes down to these 3 options:

1) 3dHubs sticks with a very basic scale for quality (layer height) that gives a rough idea about how good the printed surface is.

2) The customer supplies you not only with an stl file, but also with drawings that include tolerances for EVERYTHING, every angle, radius, lengths, smoothness, shape, bore, …

In 99,99% the customer has no idea what tolerances would be appropriate and nobody would have a clue how to produce those parts and how to measure every kind of tolerance.

3) The customer chooses the average surface quality from pictures of prints (that are printed with different layer heights etc.) that you printed earlier.

Secondly the customer tells you what part has to fulfill what job (ie gears have to interact, slides have to fit into each other) and then the customer tells you: “make it fit”.

At that point it would be the task of the hub to judge how complex it will be to make certain parts fit (maybe 2 or more prints are needed to get the right fitting) and based on that judgement the price would need to be adjusted.

I usually ask a lot of questions about the models before printing them to be absolutely sure, that the customer gets what he wants, given that there are precise holes needed i often offer to print them smaller and then drill them out so that the diameter is at least a bit closer to perfect. When taking this further you could also take your 3d print and print it a bit too big and then machine everything on it to perfection (most likely CNC mills, lathes, drill presses and such are required if you want to go that far).

The judgement by previous prints is definitely the easiest for the customer, although it doesn’t allow objective ratings that could be taken as search criteria for finding the right hub.

Secondly the hub would be required to print a lot of “waste” stuff, just to show the customer all possible materials and quality levels. The waste-prints would have to show all (or nearly all) 3d printing features.

“3d printing features” means:

overhangs of a variety of angles

top and bottom surface

vertical walls

cylinders and holes in various sizes and shapes (for the holes)

bridges of different lengths

bridges and overhangs with removed support material (that might leave surface marks)

All those features should be shown in the pictures so that the customer definitely knows what he’ll get.

That should be everything for now after half and hour of writing I need to get myself a coffee asap !

Cheers,

Marius Breuer