Hi Marc,
We spoke privately today, as I was one of the hubs that received MULTIPLE orders from you while playing “provider roulette”, all of which you requested to be immediately cancelled.
I can certainly understand your frustration, as I have had more than a few customers I worked with on a regular basis that were unable to find me after the changes. However, I strongly disagree with your workaround. These cancelled orders do affect the providers in a very real and measurable way. 3DHubs removed the ability to select specific providers, and yes, that sucks. But that means that if you need to select a specific provider, 3DHubs may no longer be the platform for you. By playing provider roulette, if you do eventually get your hub, you are still giving 3DHubs your money. You only impact the other hubs along the way. So it doesn’t sound like anybody is really getting the message.
3DHubs has made it clear that providers are not to approach customers in an effort to take business off of the platform. Totally reasonable, basic non-compete type stuff. BUT, they did open up a forum to allow people to connect outside of the platform. Which basically means that you, as the customer, totally have the right to pursue your desired provider outside of the 3DHubs platform.
Again, I totally get where you are coming from. But we should try to look out for each other as we navigate this new platform model.
First of all, I apologize for the inconvenience and hope that 3DHubs doesn’t penalize you for customer-cancelled orders. That was another request that I did put to customer service.
As a customer, it’s insane to have to work so hard and bend the system to get something -a preferred supplier from 3DHubs’ vetted list- that (1) has historically been available and (2) is entirely compatible with their stated goals. From my perspective, 3D Hubs wants it both ways: the lack of capital investment required to fill its own orders but to bury or strip away the customer:provider relationship. As a new middle-volume customer (maybe not the institutional customer they have in their sights but with ten orders in the past three weeks probably worth courting) I can’t afford a possible lost week of product development so would much prefer to go with someone who has proven themselves with good print quality, good communication, and shipping options/times that work for me. I know that management will say that all providers are equal… but we all know that’s not the case.
It seems to be ‘the thing’ at the moment for 3D printing providers to make sweeping community- and customer-alienating changes. While I can’t speak to 3DHubs’ revenue or Shapeways’, the feedback in this thread (which echos much of what is going on over at SW) and site ranking charts posted above suggest that it’s a losing strategy.
The unfortunate calculus is that even if it takes a few tries, it still makes sense to continue to give 3DHubs (and its providers) my money if they can deliver what is needed: high-quality prints, quickly, at a reasonable price with a high level of confidence. I passed my feedback on to customer service and one of the co-founders in the hope that 3DHubs can use that feedback (and that above) become its best self- rather than trying to be someone else.
3dhubs doesnt care. I have emailed them and have had multiple repeat customers also voice their concerns. They think that all hubs will print same. Even though you can order a part from multiple hubs and each one may have a different shade of color used and tolerances vary. They will all be within spec, but if one hub is -0.3mm and another is +0.3mm on part they arent going to work well together.
Marc,
Please do NOT open multiple print orders in an attempt to land a specific provider. All cancelled orders, including customer-cancelled ones, DO have a negative impact on our metrics. In addition, it is frustrating for a Hub to put in the time (i.e. expense) of evaluating a model, only to find out that the customer never intended to order from them in the first place. We also have to manage time on our 3D printers, and we have to reserve time in the queue on our 3D printers for orders like yours.
How would you like it if a customer came to you to price a large order, and after you put in the time and effort of providing a written quote, sourcing materials and setting aside time on your manufacturing equipment, you came to find out that the customer never intended to place the order in the first place? It’s a very inconsiderate thing to do to a provider and is probably the most annoying thing we Hubs have to deal with on here. So please–just don’t.
The canned response we get from 3dhubs is typically is all hubs get about the same cancellations. They dont care. Even though cancelled orders affect the search results and too low can get you removed from program.
In a general sense, it is an understandable metric. Let’s say the average across all hubs is 8 customer cancelled orders per year (I’m making these numbers up). If a particular hub has 25, odds are there is a reason, and it has to do with the hub. Maybe they take forever to review, maybe their feedback is overly nitpicky to the point where it is hard to get an order through, maybe they are rude to the customer in their feedback. Generally, if you are the outlier, it is due to the way you are operating.
With that said, let’s also hypothetically say that you and I get hooked up every time you cycle through orders to find your preferred provider. Then suddenly, as a provider, I am the outlier in cancellations statistically. The negative impact could be real and monetary. I don’t know if a hub gets due process or the chance to plead their case; I just don’t know. Though we may not agree with many decisions they make, I do believe 3DHubs cares about their business & providers, and I try to believe the best that they would consider the scenario. Just like I genuinely believe you have no intention of causing harm to hubs in your search process.
When pressed as to why a customer cancelled order negatively affects our score, I was told
That all Hubs average about the same cancellations, but more importantly from their standpoint,
If there was a cancellation reason that had zero impact, then the system would fall apart because then everyone would choose that reason when declining an order.
It’s basically there so we don’t game the system, because we are the ones that choose the reason any order is declined.
If “customer cancelled” had no impact, then everyone would simply choose that reason whenever they want to decline an order, and the metric would fall apart.
This is the same answer that was provided to me when I asked last year.
I hope that customers continue to express their disappointment to 3D Hubs. Every customer that I served on a regular basis has found me through my advertising and has stopped using 3D Hubs. These are mostly the businesses that 3D Hubs wanted to pursue.
