I have an objet 30 pro and it is not all it’s cracked up to be. The material is very expensive and it has a fairly short exparation date. The material is also not incredibly stable. The parts warp over time and are brittle, even the rubber like materials deteriorate quickly. The support material can be dificult to remove, it tends to imbed itself into the print and leaves a fuzzy soft surface. I hear the 3D systems polyjet machine uses a wax material that is easily meletd away. I have seen some impressiv prints from this machine. If you are worried about durability and resolution I would consider an SLS machine over the objet.
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Hi Brandon,
We operate an Objet Eden 350V at my day job. I have to say that while the printer makes parts that look good and runs lights out there are way too many downsides.
As others mentioned many of the materials are not really up to par, in addition to the problems mentioned they are brittle so you have to tap all screw holes and be careful to not shatter them with force. RGD450 is their best material in my experience but it is also very porous and can absorb a lot of water which will cause warping and deterioration of thin features. I have also experienced a change in material properties over time with the Objet resins as well. I have heard that Digital ABS is a much better material in general but that requires a machine with material blending features.
In addition to those problems the cleaning process is quite tedious. In my experience running parts in glossy mode can be risky for small features. Therefore our machine always gets run in matte mode where the entire part gets at least a coating of support material. The cleaning process involves manually scraping as much material off as possible, then water blasting in a cabinet which is not fun. We then soak our parts in NaOH for 25 minutes and follow up with a second round in the blasting cabinet. The cleaning process is a huge pain for small parts, if they can even make it through the process without breaking.
Lastly, we have not had good service from Stratasys. The techs know their stuff, but there are not enough of them or parts. We have run into some serious problems with our machine and ended up with it down for at least a week before a tech could get there and then we were able to get the parts. Another time we told Stratasys what we needed for parts, gave them our serial number, and parts for a different model showed up…
If you still want to look at Stratasys, the 260VS looks like it has a water soluble support material and some better model materials available. I would get a demo of the cleaning process on that though before I bought it. If you are set on a polyjet machine I would give 3D Systems a look as they use a wax support material that melts away. It seems that it does still require a secondary cleaning operation though.
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HI Brandon-
I work for a Stratasys dealer, and also run a service bureau that has 20 Stratasys printers covering the entire Stratasys FDM and polyjet portfolios. To speak to your project specifically, you need to consider what mechanical properties will be required by the application. Keeping in mind that all polyjet materials are acrylic-based, there are oftentimes limited uses for the materials as end use parts, while FDM is a different story all together, as FDM uses industrial grade thermoplastics suitable for unlimited end use applications.
That being said, you are going to find that the type of volume that you are looking to get out of the machine is unrealistic from a both a cost and timing perspective. Your most cost- and time efficient path with this will be to have the part injection molded- the part itself looks like a very simple two part mold and you will be able to do your production run at literally a fraction of the cost, fraction of the time, and also with better materials.
My two cents…
Shawn
Hi Brandon,
It all depends on the size of the part and the material properties you are looking for. The resin from an Object30 does not create the strongest parts and the cured resin can be susceptible to UV. An FDM printer will print a part in a much stronger material like ABS or ABS+.
I would consider something more like a 3d printed tool or an aluminum tool for 10K parts. A 3d printer is good for printing a few hundred pieces, if small (I have done 300 pieces on a Dimensions 1200). A 3d printed tool can bring that number up to around a thousand or so. But after that, I would recommend tooling for that part, its faster and cheaper. Even the best the 3d printers still have some post-processing to deal with and they all go down at some point.
If you are going to invest 10-20k in a new printer, that is pretty much the cost of a small tool for injection molding. The parts will be stronger and the material cost would be lower.
Hi Brandon,
We have an Objet500 Connex3 which uses the same materials as the Objet30 system although in larger cartridges along with the ability to run flexible and colored materials.
I agree with many of the comments offered here – 10,000 pieces is typically a much larger quantity than can be produced economically by 3D printing – unless there are part features which make injection molding impractical. Support removal is really no longer an issue as soluble support is now available across all of the PolyJet platforms.
Whichever Stratasys dealer you are working with should be able to run a sample part for you and provide material cost and run time information. If that does not work out for you and you are willing to send me an STL file I could at least let you know what your material cost would be to produce the part.
Regards,
Ray
Brandon,
I wouldn’t recommend investing a machine to mass produce 3d printed parts. There are better ways to produce large volumes of parts using traditional methods and with superior end results. A 3d printed parts is always going to have its weaknesses. The volume your are looking at you could injection mold the parts and be way ahead of the game. You could even CNC machine parts and do better. Our Objet 30 pro was near 60K all said and done. Materials will cost you $600-$770 per cartridge and have expiration dates. Then you have to factor in maintenance contracts which are basically forced or service on your machine becomes a nightmare around 4K per year. We can help with production for CNC and Molding if you end up choosing an alternate path. Good Luck.
20k price is for the objet 24 only. I don’t think they do that for objet 30 above.
Thank you everyone for all the useful information.
We actually build and repair injection molds at our shop and this particular part is out of our league. I am not saying it’s impossible but it would be a very expensive mold for only 10k parts.
Here is a better look at the part that shows why it would be difficult to mold.
I am starting to think we’ll just hammer by purchasing several more FDM style printers.
Thanks again for all the input.
I wanted to think a polyjet would work because they can do some really cool stuff, but I don’t think its the right fit for this job.
Brandon
Do you know any small injection molding systems? I’ve been thinking about getting involved in injection molding, but haven’t found much. Most of what I’ve seen are huge machines for industrial manufacturing. I’m operating out of an at home garage shop, so a crazy big or complex system that requires 480V is out of the question. This is the closest thing I’ve found to meet my needs, but the die size is a bit small and I’d like to see something a little more automated.
That’s a good question. I don’t personally know of any machines like you are describing. When plastics were huge in the 80’s there were a lot of smaller presses but they weren’t automated. I’m sure if you look long enough you can find something!
Brandon
Hi Brandon. I recently completed a 10,000 part order using 3d printers over the course of several months. Like you the mold was too expensive, the original lost in China. The end use was a replacement box for smart meters out of UL94 ABS. I made custom machines for the jobs with oversize nozzles, custom slicing and a special de-plating sub-routine routine, invented a special coating for the bed that releases the prints %100 at the cycle end, and a climate controlled cabinet to run the machines in with an attached dry compartment for filament storage. Once the system is running a worker would visit the print room 3 times a day for monitoring and restarting prints etc. I am at the University of Windsor in Canada, running a Fortus 400mc plus our own machines. The Fortus is what you want for those parts I think. I can set up a factory here for you at a very reasonable cost. I would love to give you a quote for the that run. I think it would be a great learning experience for our students. PS I’ve been starting to see unmoldable parts in million quantity for quotes. Its coming fast.
Cheers,
Chris
Hi Brandon, I’ve owned an Objet Eden 500 and an objet Connex 500 in the past. Probably the most user friendly and reliable technology on the market. Material isn’t cheap - but cost is relative to what your customer is paying! I would advise that you get a test print first. The materials are not mechanically strong and they have a low heat deflection temperature. All the best, Martin
Hi Brandon,
if Your Costumer wants to have 10k of These simple Part, why he doesnt build a Injection Mould? That makes definetly more sense, than printing this Amount!! What Material You want to use? The Polyjet Materials are basically developed to print Prototypes, so the Lifetime isnt compareable to Injectionmoulding Parts!
I have two Objet30 Prime and at all Im satisfied with the Printers. But it insnt so easy as the Industry promised. The Postprocessing takes too much time and the Printspeed should be faster.
The Price is actually between 35-45k€. All less this Price is not seriously, from my Point of View.
Greetings from Berlin!
Andreas
Looks not bad
I would look at far east rapid injection tooling, or potentially protolabs.com
I don’t think the Objet would give part of sufficient strength, and the cleaning of support, build time and setup would be very time consuming.
We have an Objet 24 in-house and as long as the cleaning maintenance procedures are followed, with a yearly service, it runs extremely well and reliably. However, for a job like this we would not consider using it.
4 months later
I completely disagree with the comment you cannot print end use parts at costs where you can make money and prosper. There are printers out there today that are industrial grade, have a wide range of engineering grade materials available and you do not have to obtain the materials from the vendor where you purchased the printer.
Look at 3ntr…