I really like your solution.
I do have to say that these issues we’re experiencing now were really foreshadowed back on our forum page a few months back, with the lack of response for several weeks over our concerns with the new idea for tolerances, which were then promptly pushed out with pretty well a blatant disregard for all of the concerns raised.
I do agree that it is misleading, and unlike some of the other people in this forum post I do believe it is intentional. 3D Hubs makes more off of the one time big shot deals than the would off of several smaller FDM deals. It’s just common up selling techniques being used, customers pay more money then 3D hubs gets the same proportional slice of the pie, but in this case the pie is bigger.
By pushing SLA and other printing methods over the cheaper alternative to FDM they increase their potential revenue. This is unfortunate to see as for a while the 3D Printing community really truly did seem to be solely focused on getting the customer 100% exactly what they need and what suits their projects best.
I also disagree with the statement ‘visible lines’. I can get my fdm machines to do layer heights as low as 20 microns, and at that point the layers are invisible unless you look extremely close, and are fine enough that you can’t tell by the touch.
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Not a happy hub either. My orders have dropped since the change as well.
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@Enza3D, I like that idea too, but can we trust 3dhubs to write the descriptions in a fair way? BTW, this is your idea, that is not what I was suggesting. I was pointing out that they used prototyping as the only “outcomes based” description of the materials.
HQ, Flexible, Prototyping. One of these things is not like the other.
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@imagine3dps Those are some fantastic prints you have on your hub! Those are some of the finest “low quality prototype” prints I have ever seen!
Nice hub, nice work!
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This is most likely the result of including “retention” into the Hub rankings, see changelog. The checkout does not appear to influence overall FDM numbers (see my earlier comment). Feel free to nudge support@3dhubs.com to find out about the cause
@PepCo_Parker Excellent prints, excellent reviews, wonderful work. I see you are also a person who has posted over 100 times in TALK, which means you have probably put more time into 3dhubs TALK alone than you have made in profits.
I think 3dhubs should spend more time working on helping you make more money, since you are a good contributor and a good hub, instead of trying to steal your customers.
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Thanks Perry. I wouldn’t say they’re trying to steal, mostly just redirecting. You’re right about the time by the way. If I counted my wage hourly my company would be in the hole ten fold. But that’s just part of the investment I’m putting in with hopes of receiving return later on. Would be a real shame if that never does happen because the majority of orders that should be fdm are scared off to more expensive methods.
From one of my repeat customers today, who is willing to speak directly to 3dhubs management directly if they are interested. This was unsolicited from me. He wanted to know why I was moving to cheaper materials.
He missed the whole point that this was a 3dhubs change, he thought I had changed to lower quality materials. I guess this is a a result of the materials now being called “Prototype Materials.”
This is the same customer that pointed out to me the new “Can I help you choose a material” dialogue. (A solid repeat customer that 3dhubs decided to try to upsell to another material! Which also would have lowered my rankings, since I get points for a repeat customer…)
I did not solicit the call. What is the funniest part of this? This is a customer I actually do prototypes for! (He then gets the models milled in aluminum)
Let me be very clear on what happened with this customer, a good 3dhub customer.
Last week or so, he went to create an order, and got a dialogue box that said “Can we help you select a material?”. This would have presumably tried to push the customer to HQ. Taking my repeat customer to another, higher margin hub. Literally stealing a customer from my hub, that I have worked with for over a year, and then dinging my ratings for not gettting the repeat.
Today that same customer called with an inquiry as to whether I have lowered the quality of my material.
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Hi Simon, thanks for the suggestion, happy to iterate / debate. In your suggestion, what scenarios would you recommend customers to go non-FDM? Or do you feel the technical specifications should be leading there?
I’m pleased you pointed that out!!!
I put all my customers orders through 3D Hubs. My website points customers to my 3D Hubs page to upload their files so all website orders go through 3D Hubs system. I thought I would test the system as my orders have dropped off (since the changes) and I am disgusted at what I found…
Basically acting as a customer I added my files, then I selected my material and colour, the price looks ok so I go to the next page and see the attached!!! 3D Hubs pushing my customer away from FDM and towards SLA and SLS again!!! Needless to say the links lead through to choosing SLA or SLS hubs.
This is bad when a customer finds your hub through the 3D Hubs platform but when the customer comes from MY own website to place an order on MY hub only for 3D Hubs to redirect them to someone else is disgusting!!!
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This doesn’t seem right indeed. I’ll look into it asap
Blind loyalty is Fandom. Like here in Cleveland, where we have the Cleveland Browns.
Actual loyalty is a two way street.
You can look through my posts in the past here on talk, where hubs ask “Why should I keep my customers on 3dhubs” and “If a customer wants another print, do I have to keep them on 3dhubs.”
I immediately wag my finger at the questioner. “How do you think 3dhubs gets paid?” “This is cost of sales”. “Supporting 3dhubs helps them improve the software.” “Always stick with whoever brought you to the dance.”
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Hi Simon (@Steelmans), I’ve been told the links have been removed, can you confirm?
For SLS the main advantage has be not needing support material. I recommend customers go to SLS when models require complex support that cannot be removed easily, for example inside cavities.
I recommend customers go to SLA when they require very small detailed features that not easily produced on FDM, for example jewellery or dental.
(By the way, I am not suggesting you should rename “High Detail Resin” with “Jewellery Resin” as this would be unfair on SLA printers, Much the same as “Prototyping Plastic” is unfair to FDM printers.
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Clear, will discuss your ideas here. I do think SLA deserves a ‘smooth surface finish’ highlight as well, as many customers use it to get a sense of what an injection moulded part would look like, would you agree?
For Q2 we’re also looking into possible splitting current material groups into a 2-step technology + material selection flow. In that scenario, FDM will probably just be called “FDM”, which might be the most objective of all ideas.
Yes SLA does deserve “smooth surface finish” but it is more a capability rather than a standard feature. Remember some SLA machines can print at higher layer heights too.
Calling FDM just “FDM” seems odd but it depends how it is displayed. Maybe is will be listed as just FDM, SLA and SLS. Why not revert back to “General Purpose Plastics”?
I have been pointing out for several days that customers are being shown a “Can I help you select a material” dialogue, including returning customers. At the checkout point, the screenshot you included tries to move your customer away from FDM.
Since we as hubs seldom PLACE an order, we have didn’t see it. A customer had to point it out to me. Its been there for weeks. I mentioned it several times.
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I follow “how to hub”, I work hard for customer, I advertise, customer places new order–3dhubs tries to steal customer.
Customer comes to 3dhubs, uploads part, reads reviews, chooses hub, chooses material and price, makes sales decision – 3dhubs tries to move customer away from hub.
Now I do all that, and to add insult to injury, the customer is told that I am doing Prototyping Materials.
Who sees this? Let me tell you who:
My repeat customers. (Then I get dinged on ratings)
Customers who are referred to my hub from existing customers.
Customers where I paid for the advertising!
Customers from my Facebook page.
Customers from my business cards.
HERE IS A THING TO NOTE HERE: The other non-FDM hubs have NO WORDING or warnings about the downside of choosing that.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH the guidelines, that last line “consider something else” is outright an F.U. to us.
Yes the links have been removed, much better. Whilst we are on this subject I still don’t like the term “disclaimer” would it not be better as “Material Information”?
You could also add that although FDM parts are printed with 20% infill by default, they can be printed at higher infills at an extra cost?
Also why is there no disclaimers for SLA or SLA? Surely “SLA can be brittle and is not suitable for mechanical parts” or “SLS has longer lead times” etc would be along the same lines as the FDM disclaimers?
Or perhaps the customers came to your site and found that you do protoyping materials, and went to a different hub.
Or perhaps the customers came to you and was shown a “can i help you choose a material” and went to a different hub.
Or perhaps the customers got the point of placing the order, and was told they should “consider a different material” and went to a different hub.
Hi Filemon, I also noticed a couple of other things you might be interested in…
The disclaimer appears with ABS and PLA but not Polycarbonate. The reason I noticed that is because other materials (PolyFlex, PolyWood, Taulman T-Glase etc) are missing from my listing. I Imagine this is because they are not classed as “Prototyping Plastics”. This is another argument to change back to “General Purpose Plastics” that cover all FDM used materials.
