Printing material for Objet30 Pro

[jimxpod]

I recently purchased a Stratasys U-Print SE Plus 3D FDM-style printer. I thoroughly researched the low-cost market and, although not low cost by any stretch ($20K), I settled on that model for features and productivity confident that I could compete with the low-cost machines easily. I had plans to print functional machine parts that would compete with fully machined aluminum parts. Since I design most of the products that I sell, I can design based upon using a 3D printed part in place of a customary aluminum part.

I designed a “Test Vehicle” (a representative part to demonstrate the use of FDM in place of aluminum) and acquired sample printed parts from several notable machine manufacturers. The Stratasys printer along with the software features and the close proximity of support swayed my decision to the U-Print Se Plus.

I received my printer within two weeks and had a very knowledgeable technician do the install and training. What I did not know before I purchased is that Stratasys incorporates a sneaky software trick that is designed to coerce me into buying raw plastic filament from them only at a 20X upcharge!

They incorporate a nifty IC chip within the filament feeder of the Filament material cassette. This chip has on its memory a code which corresponds to the amount of filament left on that particular spool. The IC chip is updated with the correct material inventory each time that material is used. This is very handy when you initiate a printing job that will require more material than you have in the material bay. The machine can let you know when your material is empty and it can also let you know that the current amount on the spool is not enough to finish the job in queue.

All of this is fine and very handy, however, Stratasys took this IC chip inventory idea one step too far. Once the IC chip reads zero inventory you cannot refill the spool and reset it to 100%. There is no way to reset the onboard inventory number on that chip. The machine will not use a new reloaded spool that has a chip reading zero inventory. The only way reset the chip is to purchase a new chip within a complete spool from Stratasys at a $205.00 per spool price tag. I was not told of this “Gotcha” until the installation was being performed. The installation Technician obviously felt bad for me, but there was nothing he could do about it.

I can purchase spools of ABS plastic filament (the same material used in the Stratasys machine) off of Amazon.com for $22-$25 per spool. I can also purchase a “Extrude Bot” machine from extrudebot.com here in Chandler, AZ for $675.00.This machine uses raw (virgin) ABS pellets, the same material that an injection molder would purchase, and extrudes 1.75 mm filament (same that is used on the Stratasys machines) and spools it onto your spool for $5.00 per spool.

Stratasys claims that their reasoning is that their ABS “Plus” material is better and will work in the machine with fewer problems. If that is the case, Why not sell me the good material in bulk form (large spool) and give me the ability to reload my spools and reset the IC chips back to 100% inventory? I still use the good material, but I also can realize the full potential of my printer and use it for which I purchased it.

Now, I can’t compete with my printer against the smaller printers because they can extrude cheap material for 20X less cost than I can. I can’t even afford to do the simplest jobs because the material cost is too costly. Had I known about the material cost hijack, I would never have purchased the Stratasys machine. I had visions of a fleet of machines in my shop cranking out parts for my many Engineering customers. Unfortunately that hasn’t been the case.

This is like buying an expensive CNC milling machine to out-perform the smaller shops that only have manual machines and then find out that you can’t use standard raw materials from the material supplier. You have to purchase special material from the machine manufacturer at an exorbitant price. Who would do that?

Stratasys claims that is is like HP who sells you a cheap printer and then sells you the ink at a marked-up price. I contend that there is no comparison with this analogy. I do not sell printed paper. I use printed paper for inter-office communication etc. The 3D plastic, on the other hand, is exactly what I am selling. By jacking up the plastic cost and forcing me to buy it from Stratasys is, not only preventing me from utilizing my printer, but is swaying me from ever buying another machine from them.

I am sure the word is getting around to the would-be Stratasys customers who are electing to take their chances with other machines. This could be playing a roll in the fall of Stratasys’ value in the market. After all, it’s all about controlling your costs.

Best Regards,

Jim Ellis
President
Credence Engineering, Inc.
237 W. La Vieve Ln.
Tempe, AZ 85284
Ph: 480-993-8446
E-Fax: 602-798-8277

[makerdepot]

Jim…

Did you buy your printer through an authorized re-seller? I bought my printer used off of eBay, but we did go to an authorized re-seller and they were very upfront about the cost of the printer and what is required for maintenance and such. The Stratasys uPrint that we have can print stuff that my $3000 printers can’t and that is where I use it. Yes, it cost about 20x more for the prints and probably takes 3x longer too, but it can definitely print very nice abstract, highly detailed models.

There are ways to crack the code as other people have said, but it will completely void that warranty. I don’t have a warranty, so I may try and attempt to do it myself. The other thing that my printer can’t do is print in any other color but ivory. Really? That is complete marketing to get you to by the next model up for $5K more… Now that is definitely a sham.

There is someone floating around a class action suit against Stratasys for their practice of tying filament to the printer. I don’t know if that has gotten anywhere yet.

Michael

[Kurt_7]

I don’t know about the Color Filament issue. For my Mojo - they introduced different colors about 1.5 years ago. I would find it strange that the fancier bigger Bro’s to the Mojo don’t also offer some color filament variations.

As for Filament pricing - honestly - I do NOT think that they HIDE the Costs. If you buy a fancy StrataSys type printer - its up to you to research ALL costs BEFORE buying it. Its NOT a Hobby level printer - so you really can NOT expect prices at the Hobby level. Also - all filaments have various types of makeup to them - and, controlling the filament used INSURES Hi-Quality prints - which is what I see from my Mojo. And, the Soluble supports is Indispensable - along with the WaveWash system. I have produced prototypes with intricate jointed hinged type connections - VERY Small hinges - that just can NOT be done on Hobby Level printers!

Enough said…

[Aj_Jolivette]

So, yup. that material is very expensive. I have a similar requirement with my Dimensions 1200 ES BST, but if you do not buy and use authorized and actual material from Stratasys, it will void your warranty and your support you have to pay for yearly.

…yeah… sucks, right?

[rawbotphilly]

And how will they find out? Do they have cameras in your shop? They don’t keep track of this stuff.

[rawbotphilly]

I say hack the heck out of your printers boys and girls. Warranty costs too much, you are much better off just spending that 5K on spare parts every year. Its much cheaper this way, especially during the first 5 years. The machines break but not much. All the important parts they don’t warranty, so yes, all they give you is free lights, bolts and wires, great…

And yes, could you tell us how to hack the eprom please. I would like to know. I was able to completely hack the Objet 30 Pro.

Also, you can try other resin, its not a big deal, just make sure you clean the machine quickly after with cleaning material.

Btw, if you do have a warranty, call a technician and put a key logger on your PC & machine. They will input some special password to check on the machine, thats when you get it and can reset all this important information and “hack the warranty”

[MotionMachines]

Keep you printer and computer that is hooked into it off line. That’s how they monitor the searial numbers of the matireal your using. Stratasys dose this so do the makers of da Vinci. da Vinci will shut your printer down if they find your not buying their material by the serial number of the filament cartridge.

[ChelseaRae]

Try Tri-tech in the UK. I know that they are cheaper than that. Also, Objet printers are a commercial printer. For fun see a cheaper/FDM machine. I cannot understand the amount of people posting comments on problems they are having eith their Objets, when they are not using their machines in the intended way. Get over the hacker mentality!!!

[ChelseaRae]

They keep track of the material don’t they? Are you naive enough to think they don’t monitor forums and take names too?

[fadgone]

And what proof do they have that you do follow up with a post or saying the truth?

[fadgone]

Get over the “serf” mentality.

[John_Ari_n]

Thanks all for the reactions.

I’m surprised to receive these reactions on my question on my first day on 3D Hubs.

First at all, I want to clear out one important thing… I really need this Objet30 Pro for my professional life.

I have my own management company and do I deliver technical consulting for companies as Bosch, Procter & Gamble, Deufol,… From my management company do I run a company with 35 employers and do we have all type of machines as laser- and plasma cutters, bending,…

In my backyard do I have a nice building from 75m² that my management company rent from myself (these situation is possible in Belgium). In this place do I make prototypes a specially for P & G. I have standing there a CO2 100Watt lasercutter (work surface 600x900mm), D-Router (work surface 600x900mm), cutting machine from Summa, everything for working with acrylate (bending and polish machine, paint dispenser),… and off course the Objet30 Pro.

Every week do I have several jobs for the Objet30 Pro and do these companies pay with pleasure the higher price for non serial work or prototyping. If these companies need serial work, do I work together with a company that print in SLS (the start-up is higher , but the the price is around 10 times cheaper when you work with series).

I almost bought a Fortus 380mc, but also then is the price to high if you work with series).

By the way, I bought the Objet30 Pro (600 running hours) with a Quill Vogue washing Station and a lot of materials from a company in Suisse with financial problems for 14.000€. I saw the invoice from a year before from 54.000€.

So the point of my question was, if I see something nice on Thingiverse, Grabcad, Pinshape,… and I print it, I realize (to late sometime) that a gadget can cost between 5 and 80€. Actually does not matter, because the company pays everything. But the businessman in me fight with it…

So if there is a way to pay less for the materials, will I print more gadgets for my daughter from almost 2 years.

For this reason did I bought a Leapfrog Xeed. So that I hopefully can print gadget for her in the future.

I received this printer last Friday and was it yesterday a real fight to print something stupid small. And then you realize more the different in prices for the 3D-printers or the materials.

More important, was my second question:

What’s the best way after removing the support, to manipulate the surface?

What are the experiences of other users from Polyjet?

When I bought the Objet30 Pro, where there samples with the printer with a smooth surface, also the Vero clear.

For example, how can I give the printed object in annex, a smooth surface or a transparent view?

I hope everyone understands my reaction, because my English is not so good.

[ChelseaRae]

A ‘serf’ can’t afford Objets. Happy printing hacker… : (

[ChelseaRae]

In options, choose ‘glossy’. ( You can right-click this too ). With gloves, use sodium hydroxide to get a better surface finish after you have removed the support material with power washer. Veroclear does seem to have a cloudy appearance. I’d like to be able to eradicate that too.

[John_Ari_n]

Thanks,

But the problem when you use “glossy”, is that you always have one side with support.

And also the hangover points (I don’t know if this is correct English) are covered with support.

The surface between glossy and the parts covered with support are so different, that I almost not print glossy.

We will try tomorrow the NaOH.

[ChelseaRae]

I hear what you are saying about the glossy function. There is the option of an epoxy elastic acrylic varnish but it’s expensive and hell to use. Please also, if you use NAOH make sure you dilute it with the correct amount of water and be aware that it is caustic ( so no daughter around! ). I don’t want you to have any misfortune from my recommendations.

[John_Ari_n]

Yep… it’s working perfect!

A piece that I made a few weeks ago in Vero blue, was after weeks still feeling spongy.

Because it was so spongy, was it soon dirty.

I placed the piece in NaOH last night and it’s perfect now.

I will receive one of these day’s a polish-machine for in the jewelry-sector, with different types of polish material, so that I can give it (hopefully) a smooth surface. Especially to reduce the different between the surface from the smooth printed surface and the parts that used support in one printed model.

I’m not sure yet, to place the square with the ball in to NaOH. I love the results already, but I think that it can be better…

[3D_Pro]

For international users this is compounded by the shipping/courier fees on a 3kg cartridge containing 1kg of usable material. Combine that with the local agent mark-up (exclusive trade agreement) and the material costs are certainly disproportionate to those of alternative vendors. While the print quality of Stratasys prints is undoubtedly superior, I attribute this largely to the machines themselves, so a 20% higher material fee would be more reasonable.

[Richard_S_Newma]

i have 2 x ABS P430?

[PROTOGROW]

Pop me a mail Nickysmit38@gmail.com