I have a very large print (at literally the max my width my printer can do). The side towards the front is pulling upwards apparently hard enough to pick up the tape off of the bed.
Two questions.
1) Any idea why this is happening and what I can do to fix it? My first guess at this is that because I have a very large, open frame printer (IdeaPrinter F100L), that the part towards the front is getting too much draft, causing the plastic to dry too quickly and create an upward force on the tape. (Perhaps next time I print something this large I can put something in front of the printer?)
2) How should we handle large prints that have defects in them for customers? This print is only half of the entire object and takes a day per piece. This same problem happened to the other print in the same spot on it (towards the front of the printer).
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Just been dealing with a difficult large print for several days ourselves. Basically, you’re right, it’s caused by uneven cooling. The lower layers stay heated from the build plate while the upper layers cool, causing contracting forces in the print. Now on small pieces, these forces are usually not enough to lift the print, but are actually still present inside the finished piece. In big pieces the effect is much worse, and the outer corners/edges will lift.
The best way to fix this would be an enclosure with temp. control… but there’s a few other things you can try that will help.
1. More solid bottom layers. This will simply help strengthen the structure to lessen warping.
2. Use a tall and close-proximity skirt - This helps trap hot air around the outside of the print to keep it evenly warm
3. Check that your build plate has consistent heating - many plates have dead zones where the wiring is, or where there is no insulation (usually around the edges) Use an infrared thermometer to find out. If there’s a big difference in some areas, position the print in an area where there’s minimal variation.
4. Lower the bed temp after the first layer to as low as possible before you start losing adhesion. This will help create a less extreme temperature gradient in the piece.
5. Reduce fan cooling as low as possible without letting the layer quality suffer.
The worst part about these prints is it takes forever to retry them! Good luck.
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For prints like that I usually use a brim, it helps spread the pressure out and prevents warping of the parts. Unless you have a closed build area and a heated bed, that might be your best choice.
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I would generally use a heated bed for most of my prints and it always solves any problems with warping. A part fan would also help.
I usually use a brim, 15-20 lines, and hairspray instead of tape. (be careful that not all the hairspray work)
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The fix I have not seen suggested yet is washable glue stick. Put a thick layer over the tape, primarily in the corners. Also, just to make sure, you are printing with PLA right?
Hi, I kind of disagree with your comment on #1 . I too have a large printer with an open frame. I have a Fusion3 F306 that’s 306x306x306 and I don’t have any issue with curling, even when printing at the edge of it’s capacity. The problem is most likely the design of the printer. I bet the heater isn’t going all the way to the edge making the edge cooler than the middle. I used to have a MakerGear M2 and that was the problem with that printer… the edges of the platform wasn’t being heated.
You didn’t mention what kind of plastic you are using either. I print in PLA and don’t use tape at all. I print directly on the glass with the bed set to 59 degrees C.
As for #2 … you can’t give a customer a print that is defective. Just don’t accept orders that you don’t have the proper equipment for. Stay with smaller prints and turn down the larger ones.
I highly recommend Elmers Glue Stick. My prints on an ultimaker stuck down so much I ruined the bed.
I also have a robo 3d printer that had a problem like this. I didn’t want to use any adhesive as the bed isn’t removable and therefor difficult to clean. Painters tape worked ok but then it did the same as you. My solution was to
(1) better insulate the back of my bed with thicker cork board and print with a thinwall like isometros said,
(2) Wipe down the bed with alcohol before every single print, no exceptions.
(3) adjust heat settings to minimum allowable conditions and
(4) Create some fan shrouds.
Now I print directly on the glass bed.
Reasoning behind these solutions…
(1) walls on the side and more insulation makes sure heat can only go up evenly from bed level. It also has the knock-on effect of insulating your electronics from your heat so they dont overheat.
(2) anything on the bed will reduce contact surface between the part and the bed. It doesn’t sound like much but its a huge deal. You will be surprised at how much this increases bed adhesion.
(3) This is finicky. My recommendation is to be as close as possible to perfect but always on the side of too much heat. Too hot might mean a warped part but too cold means a jammed nozzle or possible loss of bed adhesion
(4) If your talking about uneven cooling your talking about airflow and You have a monster fan right next to your hotend is modifying the airflow around the part with every pass. Make sure air is going where you want it and isn’t going where you dont.
Hope this helps. Happy printing.
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It’s not a defect of the printer, it’s a design flaw, as it’s missing a critical piece that’s required… a properly heated bed. As I say, my M2 had a heated bed but it wasn’t designed properly. My F306 has the heated bed but it’s properly designed, providing even heat across the entire bed surface, even at the edges. If your printer had a properly heated bed, you wouldn’t need to use tape and the print wouldn’t be lifing off the print surface. It’s as simple as that. Of course, a well built printer costs more, the F306 being about $4000 and my dual head at $5000, but you can print commercial quality, no headaches. Just the fact that you are experiencing this and ask for solutions just shows the limitation of the printer itself.
PS. I stopped using alcohol and started using just water at the suggestion of my printer manufacturer. The alcohol leaves a residue on the glass. Switch to water… maybe it will help.
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thormj
March 23, 2016, 3:17pm
11
A heated bed will help a lot, as will using Lóreal elnett hairspray (warning - you may have to immerse the build platform in water/alcohol mix for it to come off, so for most things I use “the big red can” from Big Lots) – I use binder clips and print on a removable glass plate instead of the Robo3D R1 bed so I can chuck it in a bucket if it doesn’t want to budge (glass from Lowes since Home Depot won’t cut it). For tall prints, I print a shroud (brim of 999 layers) - the shroud destroys itself, but keeps the part intact.
The other thing that will help a lot is dialing the temperature as low as possible – my “best results” temp setting is 205 for PLA, but if I’m printing something that tends to warp, I print at 200 (but that can make thick->thin not adhere as well – fix with superglue).
If you have a heated bed, the elnett works even better – heat the bed to 40c, print, then after printing, squirt it with “canned air upside down” and the thermal shock will make it pop right off (but will make your prints taste bitter!).
Hey there,
is the fan enabled?
I have successfully printed 200mm width parts without any raising of the edges by disabling the fan for the first 3 solid layers.
I am using a heated bed and I also reduce the temperature after the first layer, so the first 3 layers have a lot of time to cool down and become rigid enough to counter any warping further up.
Also materiel can be a huge influence, for large Parts I like to use Colorfabb Ngen.
Hope this can help you somehow!
3d-eez (http://3d-eez.com/ ) if you can get hold of some. Requires a heated bed, provides a reusable surface (30 prints an counting for me). Other than that make a box for your printer (if it has a heated bed this helps) to stop the rapid cool of your printed objects.
Buy cheaper tape, the 3M easy to remove tape is too easy to remove. I used generic all blue tape from ACE after using the fancy 3M tape and found it stayed stuck much better.
there are a few things that can improve a print, use a heated build plate, if not a heated build plate a layer of pritt stick that is dry on the build plate it works well on pla, if using abs use an acetone solution on the build late to help it stick, make sure your build plate is completely level, and some people recommend the blue printing tape i hope this can help you out
Thomas. Why not use spray?
see http://www.lpfrg.com/en/leapfrog-maxx-essentials-3d-spray
no hassle with tape and so on!
thormj
March 27, 2016, 10:20pm
17
I finally started getting my website up and running; one of the posts deals with the different hairsprays I use:
PLA Bed Adhesion | Atlanta3D (L’oreal Elnett FTW. Soemtimes it chips the glass
Sra1
May 5, 2016, 9:25am
18
Lot of comments on build surface, I too would also recommend 3D-Eez or PVA glue. I also print on a heated bed, mk2b, perhaps you can add it or something similar to your bed somehow.
Nobody really touched on the options to enclose the printer, so here goes:
- In an emergency, like when you’re working on an order, and start experiencing problems, rip some cardboard boxes up and makeshift some panelling!
- Longer term, you could get some clear acrylic sheets online, or some clear pvc. This way you retain visibility. You could design and print any fixing brackets required, or punch some holes and tie with string. Make a door so you have easy access mid-print etc.
The back is enclosed already, and even doing just the sides might help. You can also heat the chamber, either with a hairdrier or a heat gun.
hope this helps!
My ctc printer did that consistently until I enclosed the build chamber! at first I thought it was just another mod, but it is a must! also
I found the link to my favorite bed cover, http://www.ebay.com/itm/QIDI-TECHNOLOGY-high-quality-PC-glue-3d-printer-help-printing-well-/331602120126?hash=item4d3506cdbe ,
This stuff sticks hardcore!
The only thing is My first print bonded so tightly I thought I was going to bend the build plate trying to remove, so I highly recommend covering with a thin layer of Elmer’s disappearing purple(haven’t tried others).
Also I used to use ABS juice, but prefer the build plate 3m “glue plate”
This company also sells an acrylic enclosure for like 7 bucks!
)
