My experiences with the Leapfrog Creatr HS

[MrMKW]

Thank you for your reply. I am printing pretty large stuff normally. I noticed that the duct was rubbish. It melted due to the heat of the hot ends. I designed a different one myself as well but I would be curious to your design also. Would you be able to upload it? I switched to a 0.4mm nozzle. Is that large enough? I wanted a larger nozzle also because that gives stronger prints but also I had some nuts and bolts that needed to fit and I didnt know how much a larger nozzle size would affect that. Your third tip comes too late my right nozzle is really hard to change for some reason. Maybe this was even directly the case. How does it affect the extrusion? Can you print faster due to more efficient heat transfer? What kind of clogs did you have? I have them constantly now My belts seem to be alright.

[MrMKW]

I am also wondering about that. I have heard about several people getting new printers after their original one and also the newly sent ones turned out to be defective. They even had to increase the price of the HS. More recently however, they lowered the price with about 1000 euros. They advertised this as being a more efficient production process but maybe this is because they want to get rid of all of them. This is something I can imagine.

[Teneopeto]

I re designed with a prusa type cooler, i have since upgraded with a titan exstruder and hotend from e3d, im pretty happy with this new setup.

The entire machine is re built now apart from the skrew drive and the frame. electronics bed heating exstruder, bearings bearing assembly exstruder holder., absolutetly everything. It would have been easier just building one fron scratch to beginn with and it would have saved me a ton of money for the original machine (that never really worked).

[Outbound]

I’m a bit far behind from what you’ve done, mostly because I’m not that patient.

So far my biggest change has been the electronics. I’m using a Megatronics.

I really want to replace the linear bearings, get the steppers out of the extrusion cradle, redesign that and replace the extrudes for all metal ends with heat sinks. I wasn’t aware that the 0.35mm nozzles were that big a problem.

The one thing I’m going to do now (that the Megatronics allows me to with the latest Malin firmware, 1.1.0 RC8) is to use two independent stepper drivers for the y axis. I just can fine tune he stepper driver otherwise with the all the weight owe Nema 17’s have to throw around.

[Teneopeto]

Thats a good first step i put in a smoothieboard actually.

[MrMKW]

How do you connect the new temperature sensors of such a new hot end? I noticed that the current temperature sensors are like 130K at room temperature, while I think many thermistors are rated 100K at room temperature. Does it need some changes in the firmware?

[Outbound]

Well, not the first step, just the biggest one. I’ve replaced quite a few mechanical com ponents thus far. Both the x-axis 8mm rods were crooked like you wouldn’t believe.

[Cadmonkeychris]

This sort of thing.

The aluminium sheet bracketry / covers around the head are somewhat bent on my machine so my model may not fit your unit well.

Also wires for thermistors and cartridge heaters point out at right angles to the blocks, on my printer, requiring the duct to be rather wide in the x-direction (can’t be too wide otherwise clashes with LH wall of enclosure! Also I have an older unit without the sheet metal nozzle cowling that I can see from the latest Leapfrog photos.

The exhausts are biased either side of the print nozzles, and angled below the tip, to try to reduce the chance of cooling the blocks too much (been there, done that).

Print shown is E3D / SpoolWorks Edge, printed on a Cetus3D extended (Kickstarter edition), on a raft with supports disabled. Great printer, if you are after a cheapy machine that just works…

(ETA - you will note that the duct model below has some built-in supports that need clipping off)
fanductnew25-main-2.stl (3.05 MB)
fanductnew25-bracket.stl (83.1 KB)

[Teneopeto]

I re coded with the propper thermistor from E3D in the firmware. It wasnt hard i just changed a few numbers thats it. E3D provided a great guide

[Teneopeto]

I believe you Mine came with a fantstic 4 mm wobble in the z skrew drives.

[Outbound]

I bet they have a lot of those types of startup funds and all sorts of government and EU institution accelerations funds or whatever. I cannot fathom how the hell these guys have been in business for so long and keep putting out ever more expensive machines. I just checked their website and they now have a €22,000 machine!!! What the bloody fuckin’ hell!!! Who would give these guys that much money?! Then again, I did give them €2000…

But yeah, they always have very slick marketing, but their claims always seems to be extremely exaggerated. They make it seem like they’re the top 3D printer manufacturer in the world, yet you hardly (if ever) hear about them in any 3D printer reviews or in any specialized media in the field of additive manufacturing.

Another of their disgusting little tactics seems to be the Apple Computer approach to “innovation”. They add some gimmicky thing to their machine that has been around for quite awhile (like x axis dual carriage) and present it as if its their innovation. The bloody thing has been included in the Marlin firmware for quite some time. The €22,000 machine claims to come with a patented bed leveling technology. I can only wonder…

[3Dscaleworks]

I to had to know the Leapfrog machines and what i can expect and delt with it, i did no adjustments to the machines and i have three of them running fulltime . What i did was find the correct settings for every print i make and every filament i use in Simplify 3D. So sorry, guys a partialy agree, but you’ll have to know the machine. This is my opinion besides technical malfunctions

happy printing

[MrMKW]

I agree that once the pronter is working, the prints have a quality which is good enough for me. However, it is only working like 25 percent of the time so that is what really annoys me. From what I have seen, there are printers around which also print in a reasonable quality, are more reliable, cheaper, less noisy, have parts for which cheap replacements are available, etc. So if I would buy a new printer, there is a really small chance that I will buy a leapfrog again.

[3Dsmile]

Hi Marcel,

I got the same type of experience with Leapfrog.

I also had an Creatr Dual extruder. It took me 2 years to figure out how to properly print with it. Then I could happily print for about a year. (Note: without using the dual extruding feature because it is near impossible to mount right and also with the glass bed being slightly warped).

However in November last year I let it print a long print and thus the machine was printing through the night. Somehow it lost its connection after a failed print and the heaters stayed heating, this in turn almost set fire to the filament. I woke up because my firealarm in that room went off. So I ran over to the room and saw a lot of smoke comming from the machine. I pulled the cord and removed the filament. Then removed the firealarm and pulled the battery to make it shut up. On that point the second firealarm in the corridor went off because of the smoke now able to make its way to the corridor. I silenced this one too. Made sure the nothing was hot anymore and went to bed. My girlfriend was still sound asleep…

God knows what would have happend if I slept through the alarm… or if there was no fire alarm in that room.

The morning after i screwed open the electronics cover and the internal USB cable was completely fried, the external one was soldered inside its connection and my pc gave a notification it had shut down the USB port because a too high current was drawn from it. (If it hadn’t it would probably also killed my PC motherboard). There were also scorch marks on the frame and plastic covers.

So… I contacted Leapfrog service department:

[Leapfrog]:

Why this could have happened? - there is a fuse in the power module of the printer which regulates the voltage delivered to the printer and makes sure the electrical components are not

overloaded. If that fuse failed it can explain everything that happened.

Now to fix the unit from the pictures and information you provided the following would be needed:

1. A new board - based on what you told us the board was affected as well which is why the hot ends start to heat up as soon as you power the board;

2. A new power module and power cable;

3. A new internal USB cable;

Now this is just the initial parts as until we have a fresh board which can control the unit we do not know if anything else was affected;

Also please share a picture of the invoice for the unit so I can check if the printer is still within the first year warranty.

If you do not want to fix the unit and want to make sure that it is stable I can also offer the option of the carry in warranty. For more information see the PDF file attached (if the printer is under warranty all you would have to pay for would be the shipping costs and the repairs would be covered by leapfrog)

If the unit is no longer under warranty I am afraid you would need to purchase the parts but I will ask management to consider giving you a discount on the parts and hopefully they will.

So I was like:

WTF, Your printer nearly caught fire, probably because of a flaw in your power supply fuse which should be a safety feature… and I …maybe get a discount…

It’s not like this is an expected mallfunction or normal wear and tear. Please talk to your management.

Plus if you’re Dutch there is this law called:“Recht op een goed product”. Which basicly means when the product shows non conformities in its expected lifetime (A 1800 euro 3D printer is not expected to fail within 3 year, and certainly not this kind of failure) you are entitled to a free repair, a new product or your money back.

So within the same week the commercial director called and offered 3 things

1. free repair

2. A discount on a creatr HS (2400 ex VAT)

3. A discount on a Bolt (5000 ex VAT)

And I got a tour of their facility.

I was a bit tempted to go for the HS, but after reading your story I’m happy I didn’t.

I went for the repair and dropped my printer off at their facility.

1,5 monts went by and they concluded the printer was not repairable anymore (which is not the case, replace all components but the frame and the printer will work, but this was from a financial point of view).

So they offered me a discount on a CREATR single extruder.

After not agreeing to this because I still think I am within my rights asking for a refund/New printer I called in some legal help.

They sent a couple of letters but leapfrog keeps ignoring them.

Also I have to prove the non conformity but the businesses who can do this are quite expensive and a new 3D printer is cheaper.

So long story short, in my experience:

Do not buy a leapfrog printer as a consumer. They simply do not care about you and care even less for guaranty/consumer laws (see their 1 year waranty policy).

Leapfrog offers a limited carry in warranty (“Warranty”) that the Hardware will be free from defects in workmanship and materials under normal use (“Defects”) for a period of one (1) year from the date the Hardware was purchased (“Warranty Period”) unless an extended warranty has been purchased by the Client. With the exception of the duration of the Warranty, all terms and conditions of the Warranty apply to any extended warranty. All sales of products sold as Refurbished will have the same carry in warranty for a period of 90 days from the date the Hardware was purchased.

They are trying to focus on the professional market and simply not gonna trouble themselfs with fixing printers they will probably not support for a very long time in the future.

My advise:

1. Do not spend any more money on your Creatr HS…If it does not print properly with PLA to begin with it will probably also not work with all the other materials. Is it possible to reset the firmware update?
2. Buy a smoke detector (general good advise for every 3d printer btw)
3. Certainly do not give up on your hobby, this would be a shame all because one compagny deceives their customers. I have been to the point you are right now many time with the Creatr but eventually allways found a way to fix it. However in this case it might be buying a new printer ;).
4. (Eventually) Buy a Prusa i3 MK2, prints extremely well and is updateable every time they fix something new for it. Almost got bored when I didn’t had failing prints all the time.

[MrMKW]

Hello,

Thank you for your reply on my topic. It is quite shocking but also gives more insight in how things work there at Leapfrog. My experience is also that once the warranty of one year is gone they do not take any responsibility anymore for any faults in their products. This is certainly not what you can expect from a 2000 euro machine.

On your advices:

I have already sent my HS to the shop because rationally I cannot throw this machine away all of a sudden. The depreciation would be too large in this time frame. If they can fix it for a few hundred euros (although I kind of doubt that) I would love that.

Good idea. Don’t have them I think.

Yeah actually I know I will keep printing but probably with another printer at some point. I think I would love the Prusa i3 MK2, but it has a slightly too small printing bed for me. Otherwise it has got almost all the features one could ask for, especially at this price. What I am looking for is a reasonably priced printer which has at least the x or y dimension 30cm+ to fit my designs on. If anybody knows such a printer which is also of good quality I would love to hear so.

Marcel

[brjjordan3]

Did you print the prusa style cooler? Or did you adapt one? Do you have photos? I recently got an HS for a really good price and am looking to get upgrades done.

[Teneopeto]

I printed the cooler

[brjjordan3]

Would you be willing to share the file?

[Teneopeto]

Sure if i can find it. I will look

[brjjordan3]

Awesome, thanks!