Marvin reviewers

[BHAMHUB3D]

On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being very unreasonable and 10 being very reasonable), please rate how reasonable the Marvin Reviewers’ expectations for print quality in order to receive a positive review on your “initial order”. I am entirely convinced the pictures of at least one of the Marvins they give as “excellent” print quality examples are done on SLA or big industrial printers (not desktop FDM). Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve printed hundreds of parts for people over the years and never has anyone ever complained, yet I print a simple Marvin for review and I’ll be $!&ned…

[federico3]

Hi @BHAMHUB3D,

I can ensure you that’s possible to print some excellent Marvins with an FDM machine, feel free to check the pictures below.

I firmly believe that it is a good test. It’s aimed to have an idea of the printing quality that you can provide to our customer. In your case, I pushed back your test because the surface wasn’t smooth and there were some imperfections. If you provide a similar print to a customer, he’ll probably ask for a refund.

If you have any feedback about how we should improve the Marvin review process, feel free to share it.

Federico - 3D Hubs

[cobnut]

Hi @BHAMHUB3D Marvin can be tricky to print, but then it’s a test, so it should be, there’d be no point in having a test that anyone with any quality of printer could pass easily. There are “tricks” for printing Marvin, and they’re all here on this site, even from 3DHubs themselves. I got a fairly decent print of Marvin from a standard Flashforge Creator Pro once I’d experimented a few times, so yes, it’s perfectly possible to do a decent Marvin with FDM.

@federico3 out of interest, do you know what printer produced that rainbow Marvin?

Jon

[federico3]

Hi @cobnut

Thanks for asking, I’ve made a mistake: that’s not printed using an FDM machine. It’s printed with a ProJet 660Pro. My fault and my mistake.

@BHAMHUB3D I’ve just finished printing a Marvin with my Ultimaker. If you’re looking for suggestion about how to improve your Marvin, I’d suggest checking here or asking here

[BHAMHUB3D]

I don’t doubt even for a minute that it’s possible to get a really great print of Marvin on a desktop FDM. I am just trying to get a general consensus on other hub’s experience with their review process and their customers’ expectations. The pictured example of an FDM Marvin on the “How we review Marvins” page was a terrible print in my opinion and an awful standard/expectation to set. I didn’t think I would have any problem meeting that standard on my first print of Marvin, but later found out that the expectation was MUCH higher than I had originally thought. I am not complaining (to each their own). I just need to know whether or not I want to even participate in this 3D Hubs process altogether, and I can’t do that unless I know where my own standard “sits” on the scale compared to the popular standard. I can’t establish any reasonable judgement of that until I get answers to my question. Thanks.

[BHAMHUB3D]

Thank you Federico. I was able to get a better print. I just haven’t taken pictures yet. I will attach them when I get a moment near some decent lighting.

[cobnut]

Hi @BHAMHUB3D it’s difficult (for me, at least) to give any advice without seeing where you’re at with your Marvin prints so far. If you can upload a print of your best print to date (and I see you’ve got a better one from your latest comment), then I’ll happily try to compare it to my best print.

To be honest, I found getting a good photo was almost as hard as the print itself!

[BHAMHUB3D]

you are right! Black PLA, poor lighting <---- my challenge!

[BHAMHUB3D]

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to come to my thread and insult me instead of answering my question. I sure do appreciate it. We need more people like you around here. I especially like how you use a subjective word like “perfect” without any visual representation of what you really mean. Perfect to what degree?

[BHAMHUB3D]

I think it would be great if 3D Hubs were a little more descriptive about what an acceptable print is and what is not an acceptable print. Maybe some pictures of common reasons why you “push back” tests, and pictures of what that imperfection should look like instead. Like I said before, the picture of marvin on a skateboard sets an unreasonable expectation of what is acceptable, especially when compared with the green Marvin you shared earlier. Thanks for listening. I’ll get my revised print picture uploaded very soon.

[MindFuLL]

I’m sorry, I interpreted your original question as “how sloppy is my work allowed to be?” or “what defects are acceptable for a perfect review?”. Perfect means none. It means dimensional accuracy, no warping, overhangs don’t sag, layers are uniform, no gaps, no bumps, layers height matches what was ordered. If you cannot do these things (which your original question, as well as what I quoted, implies) then you shouldn’t expect a perfect review. Communication is another part of the review, and if you are this easily “insulted” you might have a problem in that department as well.
-Jesse

[MindFuLL]

“I don’t doubt even for a minute that it’s possible to get a really great print of Marvin on a desktop FDM”
It should be perfect. The quality of an FDM print is very much dependent on the operator. Maybe you need to spend a little more time learning/tweaking your equipment/software before you offer services commercially.
-Jesse

[BHAMHUB3D]

My original question asked folks to rate their experience. Which, for whatever reason no one has done yet. Of all the replies to this thread, all participants have seemingly avoided this question like the plague. Maybe it’s you that need to communicate better.

[MindFuLL]

Like I said, your question implies that your Marvin has problems and you’re worried about a bad first review. You seem to want everyone to tell you that the Marvin doesn’t have to be perfect. Instead people are asking you to be more specific about what issues you’re having so they can HELP. I don’t like pulling teeth so I answered with the info you provided. I guess it’s possible we are all idiots and don’t know how to answer your brilliant question.

[BHAMHUB3D]

When are you going to get the hint that I don’t need help improving my Marvin print? I can improve it on my own easily without advice. I very much know what I am doing I never asked for help with my improving my print. I posted on the forum to ask about other people’s experience with the test print review process. It’s simple, but I’m sure there is a very good reason that despite this thread having 16 comments as of now, still no one has answered my question. Don’t bother answering it though, I don’t feel like I could get a REASONABLE and OBJECTIVE answer from you anyway.

As a commercial 3D printing provider, you should know that even the qualities you list that make a part “perfect” are IMPOSSIBLE to obtain. No matter how “perfect” a print is to you, someone else has their own ideas about what “perfect” means to them. Even if your standard of “perfect” is the same as mine, show me a “perfect” part, and I’ll find a flaw that doesn’t meet the standards you listed. There will without doubt be “something” wrong with it, even if it were on the microscopic scale. Admittedly, the microscopic scale shouldn’t matter, but what you’re talking about is still a gray area. It’s a subjective one at the very least. Maybe you should reconsider what “perfect” means before you charge another person for “perfect” prints.

[federico3]

Give me a week and I’ll post a new, up-to-date and more clear guidance about how we review a Marvin.
Honestly speaking, I don’t agree at all when you say that is impossible to understand our standards, for the following reason:

• There is a PDF included in the Marvin_Keychain.zip. Inside the PDF, you can find 4 pictures of Marvin printed with an FDM printer. They show all the sides of Marvin, with a clear light, a handwritten note and a decent Marvin: that’s what we are looking for.
• The Talk post “how we review a Marvin” isn’t setting an insane standard. It’s just saying that:
  • We pay attention to the surface, to the loop and to the edges of the print. That’s the key for obtaining a 5-stars mark for quality.
  • We ask to complete the review process in 48 hours since Marvin requires just 45 minutes to be printed.
  • We want to see all the sides of Marvin. If you post 4 pictures showing all the sides with a decent resolution, you’ll get a 5-stars mark for the service that you’re offering.
  • If you simulate a dialogue with Marvin BOT, we’ll give you a 5-stars mark for communication.

Two of the Marvins in the post are printed with resin, one with normal PLA. Of course, we don’t expect that someone with an FDM printer reaches the same print of someone with a FormLabs printer. If you check “the green Marvin”, you will notice that according to the three criteria for the quality, it can be a good candidate for a 5-stars mark.

[MindFuLL]

Interesting. So which number on your 1-10 scale is the “REASONABLE and OBJECTIVE” answer?
“I’m sure there is a very good reason that despite this thread having 16 comments as of now, still no one has answered my question.”
Indeed.

You complain that people are not being helpful and then say you don’t need help.
You ask everyone to be specific and post pictures but refuse to do so yourself
You ask people to apply some 1-10 metric to their subjective opinion of a subjective review process and get mad because the answers are not “objective”.
You’re not looking for objective. Your looking for reinforcement of your own perception that the review system is flawed instead of your Marvin. I’m sorry you didn’t get all the “objective” 1s & 2s you were looking for. I’m sorry people were more interested in trying to help you than answering your meaningless survey.

“There will without doubt be “something” wrong with it even if it were on the microscopic scale”
Is it “reasonable” that someone is going to examine the print microscopically? A review is ALWAYS subjective. My “standards” are high, so guess what happens? My reviews are high because I have no problem meeting or exceeding the customer’s subjective expectations.

[Nebbian]

To answer your question:

I was quite happy with the review I got (which was a perfect 20 stars). Bear in mind that I’ve been printing for about a year, and have been perfecting my Marvin for around 6 months. The Marvin I posted wasn’t totally perfect, I would have been happy with 4 stars on the print quality side of things, but I followed the instructions and got a perfect review.

When I first learnt about 3DHubs I rushed out and printed my first Marvin. It was abysmal. I couldn’t believe that others were getting such great results out of FDM printers either. I stopped rushing and took the time to figure out how to get better print quality – which obviously affects other parts that I print as well. After printing probably around 50 marvins over a period of 6 months, I’ve got my settings pretty well dialled in now. Like I said, it’s not perfect, but it’s close to the limit of what my heavily modified cheap chinese kit printer can achieve.

I think that the reviewers are more generous with their ratings than I would be (at least the one who reviewed my hub was), for which I’m grateful. If they are knocking you back, then I’m pretty sure that there’s a valid reason for doing so.

Don’t take it personally, just have a good look at why it was knocked back, and expand your Marvin army. You (and your future customers) can only benefit from the result.

[BHAMHUB3D]

You aren’t mindFULL, you are mindSET. Please demonstrate to me where I refused to post pictures. Posting pictures of my print has nothing to do with my question. If I were looking for what I didn’t want to hear, I would not have even bothered asking the question. If folks wanted to help me, they would answer my question. I guess whether or not someone would examine a print on the microscopic scale depends on their expectations. Right? I’m not saying that perfection on the microscopic scale is a reasonable expectation, I just wasn’t sure that you understood a “perfect” print is subjective even as a matter of scale.

[BHAMHUB3D]

Hi @federico3, I uploaded a pic of my latest print a couple weeks ago and commented on the order, but haven’t heard back. The order was cancelled about 12 hours before I uploaded the new picture. The order page said I could “bump” your attention by commenting. It also mentioned a “checkbox” that I shouldn’t forget, but I am unsure what is meant by that.