Sounds like you’re doing everything right to be honest. You’re active on the website (that includes Talk) and you have your profile completely set up and have competitive pricing as well as some good reviews you should be all set for receiving more orders.

Whilst we appreciate this is how it should work, it doesn’t. That’s why the confusion arose in the first place and I decided to start this thread.

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I should be but I’ve only been getting less orders over the past few months. And I get ultimately it comes down to the customer and their is only so much you and I can do to get orders but somethings changed in the past few weeks and its killing orders for a lot of us. The worst part is you have made so many changes all at once its hard to pin point the exact problem.

Its like you had a working car but decided you wanted to upgrade the engine. So what did you do? Instead of upgrading one thing at a time and testing it, you upgraded every part of the engine in one go. Sure you got a faster, cooler car but now the car wont start. Good luck trouble shooting that one.

One thing that would be nice is this; You guys like to post a lot of statistics in the monthly trends. None of them really help Hubs try to improve their offerings and gain customers. You currently share things like how many printers are listed, and what has the most popular for owners. How about including the most popular printer for orders on 3DHubs? And what the average order cost for that printer is. Because sure the Makerbot is the most popular printer but anyone who knows 3D printing well knows it is by no means the best printer as far as quality and reliability. And the info of most popular orders will probably be slightly skewed by the most popular listed printer but maybe we will be able to see a trend in something like duel vs single extruder, build volume, possible materials, etc. Never know till we see it.

That way someone looking to expand their 3D printers can see what be the most cost effective printer might be to buy. Next is you mention the most used colors. That’s good, it helps me know what to purchase to have in stock. What about what material type is most commonly used? There is so many options out there now that I could not possibly have every material in every color. This interests me as a Zortrax owner because my material offerings are limited at the moment. I am looking to get another printer soon and I am trying to decide if i should get another Zortrax or get a more open source printer so I can offer more exotic materials.

There is so many more helpful statistics you could easily share with Hub owners that could help us improve our offerings and answer so many question about where this additional “20% increase” in sales is actually going. I also think more transparency on average user statistics. Things like how much business successful hubs actually bring in, how many people actually look at our pages. I know we have a listing rank or something but that’s not helpful when we don’t know how to improve it. Maybe show stats for hubs in our area. Would be nice to see if other hubs near by are having more success than us. Would allow us to see if maybe its our material offering, our build volume, our pricing, etc. or maybe that just there isn’t business in your area (which I know isn’t true because two of the people above me have over 50 reviews each). This would also allow some of us users who have been waving the pitchfork in talk lately to see if 3Dhubs is actually killing sales or if its just been a slow few months for everyone and get off your backs a little.

TL;DR: Slow down the updates. Give us statistics that actually mean something to improving our business.

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I really like this idea Josh, a kind of ‘Hub Insights’ to help you better run your Hub. Of course this data could be somewhat sensitive to competitors, but perhaps we can think of a way in which we share just the relevant info with the right people and not have it as public as the trend reports. In this way we could probably share more detailed information.

I’ll have a talk with @Paul_71 who organises our Trend reports and is currently working on the 3D Printer Buyers Guide.

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“High ratio of orders received to succesfully completed”
Does this mean if someone starts an order and drops off the face of the earth it counts against me?

“Complete Hub profile (e.g. pictures of prints, reviews, description)”

If you guys think this is important than why did you remove the link for customers to see it?

Of course it can happen to any Hub that a customer loses interest, we don’t count that against you. Of course if you don’t respond or keep declining orders we will count it against you as it’s a poor customer experience, and the customer would be better off at another Hub.

Regarding the Hub profile all that information is used in the /3dprint checkout, and like we’ve mentioned already a few times, we’re doing research by running this A/B test in order to learn how we can improve the service more. It’s essential to test many different things quickly and learn which work and which don’t. This is how we got to where we are today, and how we can keep making the service better as we move forward.

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Ya, I get some of the info would be a bit sensitive. I think maybe offering a monthly private “Hub Insight” that each user could view that showed just local data would help with that. That way even if a competitor made an account to collect data they would only be able to see a little bit of it. Main thing I would love to know is, in order:

1. How many people actually go to my hub?

  1. What material types are most popular for orders?

  2. Why someone didn’t order from me?

4. What printers are the most ordered from?

5. How many orders happen around me?

First two I think would be the easiest and least sensitive, at least in a private “Insight” page.

And I think I’ve seen this mentioned elsewhere but I definitely think either a overhaul of the Trends report or a whole new section like this is needed. The current trends info, well they look nice and might be fun to look at for new users, are not at all interesting to experienced users. I remember looking at it a bunch when I first started and was all excited. After a while I realized it was all kind of fluff, for lack of a better term at the moment.

A quick breakdown of what I mean as an experienced, well versed user (To clarify, I get these trends are usefully new hubs/customers but I am going to ignore those points to show the other side of things):

1. World Breakdown, now apparently World HD Breakdown- So I just noticed this, didn’t it use to show every hub? Now it just shows HD? Really, that’s a lot upsetting but moving on.

2. Highest Rated 3D printers- Ratings are for the most part biased. There is no way the Form 1 can actually rate higher than the Form 1+. Its just a fact. Last time I filled out a rating I gave my Zortrax on average I think a 4.8. Was it biased? Of course, I love this machine. And these don’t help hubs expand business because like I said they are partially biased and just because the Form 1+ is a good printer doesn’t mean people are ordering from it. Sorry Formlabs for calling you out twice, nothing personal just the first example I saw, I love your printers. Also maybe just because I gave the Zortrax high marks doesn’t mean those same reasons as the operator are as highly valued to the customer. Does the customer care that their slicer software is so easy my 5 year old brother already can operate it all on his own? Nope. Does the customer care that the average print set up is about 5 minutes from downloading the print to pressing start on the machine? Nope.

3. Trending Printers- Ok, so more people bought them this month. Does that mean they are better printers for selling prints? Maybe they just were on sale. Maybe they are a new launch and had some good marketing. Again, not to call out Formlabs but you list the Form 1+ as jumping 30 spots, but we know why that was. They dropped in price. Has it helped boost any hubs sales that bought one though?

4. Top Cities- Well I would sell a kidney or two to move to Amsterdam, Paris, Milan etc. I wont be doing that anytime soon (Though I have been to all those cities plus a few more and Amsterdam is by far the best, I do plan on moving back soon, looking to hire? haha) so that wont help me boost sales. Plus I already live in #8 city, Boston. Also this is just based of printers listed. What about sales trends in that city? Sure one city might have the most printers but that also might mean since everyone owns one no one is ordering.

5. Printer Distribution- See points #2 and #3 as same issues apply.

6. Manufacturer Distribution- See point #5.

7. Manufacturer By Region- Huh, who would have thought American printers would sell best in America and European printers best in Europe? Again though, see point #6.

8. Printer Listing- Well I love to see that 3DHubs as a company is growing in listings, it doesn’t really show anything important. Maybe this is actually a sign that 3DHubs is failing. With too many printers listed there is now to much overhead with people hubs and photos and information. Too many people own printers and no one actually has to order prints since they already own the machine. How about how many sales you have total? Because just because people are listing things doesn’t mean people are buying, and lets be honest, that’s whats important.

9. Print Categories and average value. Kind of good to know I guess. But there is nothing we can do with this info. So scale models is the most expensive average order. What can I do with that info. Maybe post a few photos of small models to show off our printer? But its not like I can tailor my page to bring that in. Maybe I could get a Form 2 (again with Formlabs, almost like I got them on my mind) because they can generally do tiny models a little better than FDM. That would also account for why the average order is more expensive. But things that I wish I knew related to this are: Whats the most common printer chosen for “Scale Models” and how frequently are their “Scale Model” orders? Maybe its the most expensive because that is the fewest orders and the few that do happen are just expensive. If buying the Form to get those orders would help would it even be worth it if I only get one scale model print a month?

10. Popular Print Categories- Well I guess I should have really reviewed all the graphs before writing them as I partially answered point #9 with this graph. So as I brought up in point #9, Scale models is the 3rd least popular category meaning if I wanted to get into that for the expensive orders it doesn’t seem worth it since prototyping is over 4 times more popular and the average order is 17% less. But again I just had to kind of piece that together. I might be completely wrong. Maybe adding a Form 2 to my hub will bring in more customers, even if in the end they only actually needed an FDM print.

11. Color Distribution- The one useful thing as a Hub operator that is here. Because of this I didn’t have to go out and buy every color right away to do process of elimination to know what to stock. I already had white and black to start, I figured blue and red would be next, but I never would have though transparent would be next, or that grey would be so little. To add to this though, like I’ve mentioned, would be what type of material is popular? Because my machine currently cant print PLA or things like Ninjaflex and I feel that might be an issue but I really have no evidence to justify purchasing another machine or modifying my machine to do that.

12. 3D Printing World Map- Oh, wait, there it is. Well that makes me a little more upset. Why does all reliant data get grouped together but this? People already feel like you are pushing the small hub out of the way to make room for the big, bad HD hubs. Now you have literally pushed the entire world that made 3D hubs what it is to the very bottom of a very long page. Hmm, if I were to overthink this I would take it as some sort of subliminal message about 3Dhubs plan for us.

So take away: Almost half the trends are user biased. The remaining don’t promote any useful knowledge that anyone who is really into 3D printing didn’t already know. Some of them are fun to look at to start but once you really break it down there isn’t anything there but a good UX designer.

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On the first statement about customer experience and declined orders; the changes made of only seemed to increase the opportunity for both of these to happen.

By allowing customers to only upload and submit an order, we as a hub only have to option to decline it if the part is not printable or the turn around time is not sufficient. Before customers could maybe look at our previous work and get an idea for what our printer could do. Or what use to happen often would be they would contact us with an idea or a link to something and wonder if it was printable, if it could be done soon enough, and what it might cost. And if it couldn’t be done I had a list of other hubs I had prior contact with that operated different machines and I would tell the customer exactly why I couldn’t print it, what could print it and who to go to.

Now once I decline an order I loose all contact with that person, it counts against me apparently and I am out a potential future customer. Sure I could leave the pending order open for the 24 hours to further communicate with them but its also my understanding that leaving orders open is bad for the hub. Really a loose loose situation.

Hello Brian,
I’m a little concerned because yesterday I archived two “Enquiries”. One customer sent me two duplicate messages, so I got rid of one. For the other, the customer started an order (which was successfully completed) independent of the “enquiry” and was no longer needed. When you “archive”, it warns that you are “rejecting an order” and afterwards I noticed that my ranking dropped a couple points. Does archiving an enquiry lower your ranking?
-Jesse

I have this concern too. A customer messaged me thanking me for the print and to say how his project is going. I archived it and I think it had a detrimental effect.

If this is true no wonder I get no orders, I have “archived” quite a few messages without even thinking about it. Why in the world would using archive count against us. The message was over and I didn’t want the notification just sitting in my task bar thingy

Hey Guys, just to clarify we don’t hold archived messages against your Hub rank/performance. We’re a stricter however with orders that get paid and then get canceled, as this is really a bad experience.

What if the customer stops responding to the order before payment?

I can’t go into each case in detail as it would make the Hub ranking algorithm too prone to gaming.

In general we penalize Hubs for not completing an order, there are different reasons why and we’ve weighed them in such a way that the worst Hubs get penalized most and the best Hubs the least. It’s not rocket science, of course a customer can in some cases lose interest so that’s not weighed heavily, but if you customers keep consistently ‘losing interest’ at your Hub that’s a sign that the service is not great, and it would be in the best interest of the marketplace/platform to not suggest you to future customers.

In the end it comes down to this: if you’re running a decent service we’ll suggest your Hub to customers, only if your service, reviews, conversion etc. are really poor we lower your position on the /3dprint ranking to keep customers from having a bad experience.

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Hi Josh!

Thanks for the amazing and extensive feedback! Great points, this is definitely something we’re planning on doing in the near future. Obviously for us it’s also important to educate our Hubs by giving actionable advice and feedback: better Hubs → happier customers → great platform.

The best channel for this is probably more insights on your Hub profile and a dedicated email with local insights and tips such as the ones you mentioned. This way we can share more “sensitive” and Hub related information as well. I’ll be exploring this soon, so if you have some more ideas on what you’d like to see/know about just let me know!

In this sense, with the Trend Report we have completely different goals. It’s more for people with general interest in 3D printing - actually only ~25% of the subscribers are our Hubs.

Cheers,

Bali

PS: We have our open positions here, both for the NY and Amsterdam office:)

Great to hear. I look forward to getting more information about my Hub and ways to improve it.

Emails sound like a great source for sending out the info and definitely help with keeping what might be considered more sensitive data private. As for ideas, that’s about it for right now. It covered a lot and I think would be the next major step in greatly improving the Hubs ability to function and further improve themselves and the site as a whole. Only other thing I would love to see really, and this is a completely different area, is allowing a Hub to have 2-3 possible locations. I personally have two hubs set up so I can be visible near my work address and my home address. It would be great if I didn’t have to try to bounce between accounts to see both. I get that could cause some issues like people have shared elsewhere with getting proper verification and proof of address but I bet I am not the only one who would like to advertise from two valid locations.

Also if having two accounts isn’t allowed I’ll delete one right away, I tried looking for any info on it but there wasn’t anything I could find on it. And to point out a small bug with having two accounts. Both accounts have different usernames and emails but the same password. One is even linked to Facebook well the other isn’t. When I try logging into either username though it logs me into the same, newer, account every time. If I try to log in through facebook it brings me to my newer account that isn’t connected to Facebook. The only way for me to log into my old account right now is to go to my email, find an email from 3D Hubs and click on a link through there. I’ve really only tried this on Chrome on several different computers/devices. Should probably try from a new browser to test though.

Yes I get the trend report is for the much larger population of the fresh 3D printing crowd who is just starting. And that’s why I think having an alternative, more detail oriented report for that 25% that brings in the other 75% is so important. Just because we are the few does not mean we are the least important. It reminds me of when Reddit got closed by its moderators in protest because the company stopped listening and forgot who really ran the show. And well I don’t think the situation here is anywhere near the same I feel the need to bring it up. One post I saw during the whole thing was in response to someone posting about “Why should the average user care if the moderators/famous people of Reddit are upset?” And the simple answer to that is the average user can easily jump ship to the next Reddit of the internet if that’s where the content is. All the majority cares about is fresh content that’s mainly being posted by the 1%er’s. If those 1%er’s started posting it on a new site, guess where the rest of the crowd is going? Because they don’t care if its called Digg, Reddit, or whatever the next site is called.

PS: I keep checking there every once and a while. None of the postings usually seem to fit my background. I have a degree in Industrial Design with an obvious love and knowledge of 3D printing, 3D modeling. My skills are more in design thinking, Adobe Creative Suite, Solidworks, pen and paper, model making. Most of the postings are more for coding side of things. And well I’ve done a little web/UI design and I’ve taught myself a little programming in the past it is certainly not my area of expertise. Any idea if there is any need for someone like that at either office? Some of the internships seem to fit but they are for EU students only and I am neither.

EDIT: I actually just posted this from the wrong account because I was double checking the log-in issues I was having and it switched accounts on me. Now I cant even get into my other account the way I described. Hmm, this is fun.

Well now I’ve gotten back on with a password reset. Little scared to log out to test again though

I’ll have our developers double check if everything is ok. In general it’s good to know that our links in emails will automatically log you in, it seems you are aware of this and use it to get back into your second account. Of course if you use your username and password for the second account it shouldn’t log you in to the newer one, is that really happening?

Ya, I can make a video or something of it later tonight if you would like.

If I type in Josh_Raples and my password I log into WickedxJosh

If I click on “Log in through Facebook” I log into WickedxJosh, even though its only linked to Josh_Raples

If I type in WickedxJosh and my password I log into WickedxJosh

Then the issue I ran into for the first time when I typed that last message was it logged me into WickedxJosh and when I tried to log back into Josh_Raples it told me there was some sort of error with that log in. And when I went to try to log in through an email it gave me errors. I fixed it by resetting my password and I haven’t tried again since. I will now though.

It might be a caching issue with Chrome and 3D Hubs as I think all the times I’ve tried doing this I’ve been logged in with my info on Chrome across a few different computers. I can try with IE or something too.

Ok, so changing my password kind of fixed the issue. Before both accounts shared the same password to keep things simple. Now that they have different passwords I can now log into the proper account with the right username. Issue still arises with logging in through Facebook. Even though I know I never linked my second account, WickedxJosh to FB it still logs me into WickedxJosh if I click the FB button.