Castable raisin machine with high resolution and big volume

Kyu_Kim · 2015-11-29T23:57:01.000Z

I am in fine jewelry business. I am about to make decision on buying Form 2 or b9 V1.2HD.

Which one is good reliable high resolution machine with large envelop. I am kinda confused by the ranking review on Form 2 where it says 25 Micron build high but 140 micron laser size.

Paul-Jean · 2015-11-30T08:53:40.000Z

I have a Form1+ quality is good but this resin is really hard to cast even by using plasticast.

metaobjects · 2015-11-30T12:00:46.000Z

25 microns is the z layer height, 140 microns is the X/Y size of the laser that traces the shape out. Essentially to create a layer it traces out a 140 micron circle of UV around the shape, so while it can move that circle around at very high resolution and create very smooth curves any sharp detail will be “rounded down” to 140 micron.

DLP on the other hand has much smaller minimum X/Y size, but because it’s based on pixels it can’t create curves as smooth as a laser based printer can.

I’ve create a quick diagram in photoshop to illustrate - http://i.imgur.com/JJ0R9Ub.png

Sure_Hacksalot · 2015-11-30T18:33:21.000Z

I have made many successful castings (mostly sterling silver) using the Form 1+ Castable resin. I cannot say anything about the B9, but the Form 1+, and I assume the Form 2 as well, has an overall excellent quality (both in the prints and in the tech support/online instructions). The main thing to make sure of is to do a 2 hour UV post-cure of the Castable resin before the casting process.

As mentioned already, the 25 micron corresponds to the minimum Z-resolution while the 140 micron laser size corresponds to the overall resolution (ie: the absolute smallest feature you can print).

You can see what I’ve done with my casting setup at http://www.instructables.com/id/Casting-Rings-From-Startup-to-Finish/

Sure-Hacksalot

Kyu_Kim · 2015-12-01T00:02:10.000Z

Thank you so much. Best insightful diagram!

gabriela3d · 2015-12-01T16:44:03.000Z

@GaryDawson is doing beautiful work on his B9Creator - have a look at his Hub page: https://www.3dhubs.com/corvallis/hubs/dawson-distributions. Hopefully he’ll be able to answer your questions on this particular machine. Cheers

GaryDawson · 2015-12-01T17:32:22.000Z

Hello all, I am out of my office right now but will return shortly with more substantive information for you. I have written three white papers about casting resin that definitely apply to the b9 resins and likely apply to almost any resin.

gabriela3d · 2015-12-01T19:04:11.000Z

Thanks for the input, Gary, looking forward to this!

GaryDawson · 2015-12-01T21:13:39.000Z

I now see the original question that started this thread, I was on my daily hike earlier and when viewed on my phone I first thought it was more focused on resin castability. It seems to be more about comparing the B9 to the Formlabs product. My disclaimer…

is that I am a distributor for the B9Creator. I was the sole worldwide distributor until the first of this year when I formed the beginnings of a distribution network for B9Creations and then turned over the marketing for B9Creations to the new VP of Sales, Shon Anderson. That being said, I’m an honest person and will give you the straightest info I can. I have an intimate familiarity with the B9 printer but have never worked directly with a Formlabs product. I do think I have a good overview of the advantages and drawbacks to each system.

I have great respect for Formlabs and their product can build larger volume than the B9. I think that the B9 is capable of higher ultimate resolution by virtue of its use of DLP (Digital Light Processing) instead of a laser. The thing is that the laser beam width in the Formlabs product is 140µ. Now, the laser can move across the build area in smaller than 140µ increments which can provide for a somewhat higher apparent resolution of some details than 140µ but the laser beam width does present some limitations. DLP, with our HD projector means that we achieve, (in a well-tuned B9, and more about that in a minute) an x-y resolution of 30µ and can then print at 25µ Z. The B9 also exposes an entire layer at a time which may make it faster than the Formlabs product but I don’t have the statistics in front of me so I will defer that point to someone more knowledgeable about the Form1 platform. I will add that the B9 is adjustable in three increments of resolution/build volume so if you can live with either 50 or 70µ in the x-y you can gain build volume with the B9.

I think the Formlabs may be more “plug-and-play” than the B9 and may have better support and documentation than the B9 though B9Creations has worked very hard over the past few months to bring their documentation up to a more acceptable standard. That being said, many of our machines are sold as “kits” which the user assembles and that brings in the human error factor. As mentioned above, once calibrated, with a good PDMS layer installed, the B9 resolution is pretty spectacular. The B9 is available assembled and factory calibrated for those who prefer that option.

Now, since I promised it, for some resin casting info…

I’m attaching PDF’s of two of my white papers explaining the challenges of casting resin. Resins ARE castable, but realistically, you may have to modify your casting process at least a little, depending on which resin you wish to cast. I’ll suggest reading the “Casting the B9R1” paper first for an overview. ALso, let me say in advance that I have some updating to do to two of these papers. There are some new techniques that are not explained in them, but I have not tested all of the new info thoroughly so I’m reluctant to include it until I have time to do so. Finally, there seem to be as many opinions about casting resins out there as there are resin casters so I expect that you will find information that varies with what I write here. That’s fine, what I write about is what I know works for me. I’ll be happy to tender any further specific questions here as time allows. Happy Trails ~G
Casting the B9R1 Series Resins.pdf (106 KB)
Cleanup and Casting prep…pdf (592 KB)

chrishenry · 2015-12-02T15:22:15.000Z

If your budget allows for it you should look at the Rapid Shape S series. Its 25 micron x/y/z with castable resins.

Kyu_Kim · 2015-12-02T15:42:12.000Z

Thank you for your input but yeh that’s too much for me. My budget is under 10k

SCVette · 2015-12-07T19:38:02.000Z

Also, consider the Titan 1 DLP resin printer from Kudo3d.com

It is a great printer with very large build area and does excellent ultra resolution printing with the castable 3DM resin.

Pietila · 2015-12-08T15:53:01.000Z

This is just assumption, but is it so that laser beam should be focused on sertain level or layer where the intensity of light is high enough to cure resin… I assume that the “master” beam that you have read from the reviews, is size of 140 micron… when it goes through the mirrors and lenses the size of a laser spot on surface of vat is something else… much smaller I quess. This is same thing with laser cutters. Laser beam need to be focused on right level to make good engraving.

They probably give you the right answer if you ask it directly from Formlabs.

Kyu_Kim · 2015-12-08T16:50:45.000Z

I asked for sample prints and you are right. The job is really fine and the details of micro prongs are definitely smaller than 140 micron.

Kyu_Kim · 2015-12-08T16:55:07.000Z

I am looking into this machine and it looks great. However, relatively new company and not much feedback on the product make me nerves to jump on. Very large and very good resolution are real attractive factor though.