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Dec 2014

Hi. I wonder if any of you would be able to offer advice on 3D printing something to make my film shows that much better. A brief overview of what I’m about and what I’m trying to achieve and your thoughts on whether it’s at all possible using 3D Printing?

I love to shoot 16mm cine film. Usually negative film that ends up after being scanned as a digital file on a computer but I also love to shoot reversal film where you get a positive image back after processing (like slide film) that you can project on a 16mm projector (old school). I usually shoot holidays, trips out and family occasions on reversal film to project (it’s a bit of a family tradition).

I have a wind up point and shoot Bolex 16mm camera and a while ago i got it converted from Regular

16mm to Super 16mm film. For those who are not film buffs all 16mm equipment was originally designed to shoot Regular 16mm film where there are perforations both sides of the film and the cameras, lenses and optics are all designed to write a 4:3 Aspect ratio image onto the film.

That was all turned on its head when there was demand for lower priced widescreen cameras and the

Super 16mm format was born. By permanently getting rid of 1 sides perforations or soundtrack meant the picture area could increase in size and be more rectangular and have an aspect ratio very close to 16:9. Basically a better use of the format making more use of the film for the picture. Here’s Wikipedia for a screenshot of the differences:-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/16mm_and_super16.png 1

I have a 16mm Bell and Howell Projector made in Chicago Illinois in the good old USA given to me by my dad who was given it as a retirement present in the very late 80s. Its immaculate and hardly run any film. Just as with all 16mm cameras all projectors were manufactured to show standard 16mm film as all film would come one side with perforations and the other with a soundtrack so would only project a 4:3 picture area off the film.

Having had my camera opened up to capture the extra picture area I’d like my projector to project it and not crop it out. So in effect I just need to widen the projectors gate. I have got various people to try and take a regular 16mm gate from a donor B&H projector (usually a butchered sold for parts type) and open it up in there metal shop but it is such a small area to be working on that even the ones that have been successful in opening the gate and not causing the film to scratch when running through it usually cannot expand the frame line straight. Any waver in their hand while making the change is magnified x200-300 times depending on screen size. In a word i get a bigger picture in a very dodgy looking frame.

The beauty of getting the Bell and Howell projectors modified is that there are so many of them out there and I think from the 70’s onward they all had the same type of gate. The other great benefit I’ve found is that the original projector lenses that come with them (certainly mine) project the extra picture area without any problem. It’s as if they thought this wonderful idea would come 2 decades later :slight_smile:

Is there a service that could take my Regular 16mm gate parts and laser scan them and then extend the frame size in there model to match the Super16mm format and then 3D print them?

Some things to note:-

The projector housing gets very warm when running with a 250W bulb so if this was designed in plastic

would the plastic used by 3D printers be capable of standing up to the boiling hot temperature produced without melting? Also the plastic would have to be very smooth so as not to scratch the film. Could this be done in metal if not and at what cost?

Best Regards

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    Dec '14
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    Dec '14
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Thanks for bringing this to Talk - it sounds like a very important and personal project and I’d be more than happy to help. We have several hubs in our network that are able to do laser scanning. Can you share your location/ city with me, so that I can recommend one that is closest to you? As for the print itself, plastic might not be an option, but I’m sure the hub will be able to recommend the best material for this.

Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks for replying. I live in the UK in Nottingham but can travel to London if required. If there is an outfit that could laser scan what are in effect two small plates of metal and alter an opening in both to a silightly bigger dimension in the CAD before making it in metal that would be great. Let me know thanks for your help. Gareth

Hi All,

Thanks Gabriela

Using a iphone as an impromptu light bench here’s a picture of 1 of the two gate parts i need laser scanning and altering. Click on Gate3d.jpg below

The picture on the left shows the Regular 16mm 4:3 film gate supplied with the projector and the one on the right shows the attempt a metal shop had a making me a Super 16mm gate from a donor regular 16mm gate on the right. I have put an offcut of a few frames of film on each so you can see what i’m trying to achieve and an unobscured strip of Super 16mm film far right.

As you can see projecting this widescreen format on the origianl 4:3 projector gate wastea a big chunk of the frame which makes the format so much more appealing. You can see even on the Super 16mm gate the frame line could extend all the way left to the edge of the sprocket hole and much further right to project an even bigger area onto the screen but doesnt.

With the entry of Film Ferrarnia back into the analogue film business back producing color reversal film in this format next year i think there will be a number of enthusiastic film users who would love a simple solution to this 2 decade old problem.

If i can make this a success i will be writing about it on my website and hosting the 3d printer file and recommending the 3d print shop that can help me make a succes of this as far as i can tell nobody has so far worked on a simple solution for this.

Best Regards

Gareth

Hi Gareth,

Not sure I understand why you need the gate laser scanned, although I am finding it hard to picture the problem clearly. If you can send me the original item, together with notes on what you need, I’m pretty sure I can make a 3D model of a version that accepts Super16mm. Then it’s just a matter of printing it out in an appropriate material. Talking of which, I can confirm that thermoplastic won’t do the job for you. Can’t help but think this will need a full metal print. That kind of limits your choice but I’m sure we can find a way to do it.

Cheers,

Andy

Hi Andy.

I’ll make a video and put it on you tube of the whole setup so its easier to understand and link it here so you truly know what i’m trying to achieve. I don’t mind doing a few test runs of attempts in plastic and i can still run the projector for a few minutes before it gets to maximum tempreture to test that it projects the full film width before going to metal.

Best Regards

Hi Gareth & Gabriela,

With the heat involved, plastic is definately not going to be feasible, but we can 3D print a pattern and then cast the part in brass or aluminium (if weight is an issue).

As Andy mentioned, the part looks simple enough to not warrant the additional expense of scanning. The CAD model needed to produce the 3D printed pattern can be built by measuring the original part.

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We have all the equipment in-house to reverse engineer and produce the final part, so if you’d like to proceed, send some photos showing all sides with some overall dimensions plus any dimensions of critical features that will allow us to assess feasibility for our processes.

kind regards

Ian Carter

Impossible Creations