50 Micron Layers and Marvin

Snortimer · 2016-06-15T16:04:43.000Z

Thanks to all these tips, I’m now inspired to push the limits on my TAZ! I’m trying a 30-micron Marvin. I’m up to 1.4mm (-ish), and it seems to be working.

If I have success, I’ll put my settings up here (they should be very similar for the Mini).

I suspect I’ll start to have issues on the lower half of the body, but the legs are great!

my3dconcepts · 2016-06-15T16:11:51.000Z

if you want great results at 50 microns, you have to change the nozzle size - 0.35mm or even 0.25 mm. I would say with 0.5 mm nozzle you can go as low as 100microns. It’s really easy to swap the nozzle on the mini! personally I wouldn’t even try to print at 50microns with 0.5mm nozzle!

huffworks3d · 2016-06-15T16:32:03.000Z

Also consider the overhangs on Marvin. When printing the eyebrows and eyes at say, .2 layers, the overhang is minor relative to the layer height As the layer height decreases to .05mm, the overhang becomes that much greater (4 times in this case) relative to the layer height, and 4 times as difficult to maintain its form.

Lowering print temperature a bit should indeed help with this, increasing fan power if you are using PLA or Colorfabb XT that can take the extra cooling without warping.

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:23:39.000Z

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I have already lowered my temperature, and increased the cooling to 100%. I also increased my first layer height to .2. Should this work? I haven’t tested a new Marvin with these new settings yet…

tpalagyi · 2016-06-16T15:27:46.000Z

Great! Yes these settings should work, just make a test. Also lower the print speed to 60% if its prints good then you can try also at higher speed.

Regards.

Tamas

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:30:39.000Z

Wow! Thanks for the super detailed reply!

I am currently using nGen material (which is made by Colorfabb). As for cleaning the nozzle, is their a certain material you recommend? Should I use the isopropyl alcohol that I use to wipe down the bed? Other than that, though, I think the Auto-Leveling is working pretty good! And any minor miscalculations should have been fixed by the Z-Offset adjustments.

I as well will be trying most of the other suggestions made in this forum. Hopefully I can improve my results!

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:33:18.000Z

Ok, thanks for the clarification Tamas!

The standard print speed for nGen is 50mm/s, so I lowered it to 25mm/s (just to be safe). I’m assuming that if it prints correctly that slowly, then I can slowly speed the printer up?

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:35:33.000Z

Thanks for the reply!

I’m pretty sure that my tension is correct, because filament has been extruding wonderfully on my Mini (when printing at .2mm). It’s incredible that you’ve dialed in your printer so much that you can print at 25 microns! Kudos to you!

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:37:36.000Z

Awesome!

I would love it if you posted your settings, so we could all get some standard settings that would work! 30 Microns is really low, but I wish you could luck!

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:38:38.000Z

Hmmm. This is an interesting suggestion! I haven’t tried changing my nozzle yet! Which nozzles would you recommend for the Lulzbot Mini?

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:40:32.000Z

Thanks for the suggestions!

I have heard from numerous people that I should increase the fan and decrease the print temperature, and that is exactly what I’ll be doing! Just for reference, I’m using Colorfabb nGen, which is pretty similar to XT, except for the lower melting temp.

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:41:51.000Z

Thanks for the reply!

I have heard that I need to up my cooling, and it sure seems like I should take this into account!

tpalagyi · 2016-06-16T15:42:10.000Z

50 microns is really sensitive printing with FDM everything has impact on it. Temperature, speed, filament etc.

As I have just read you have a 0.5 nozzle on your machine? If yes change it to 0.3 to for 50 microns prints to get good result. also recommend to use 0.4 for normal prints its a bit better quality.

The rules:

0.5 nozzle 0.3-0.1mm layers

0.4 nozzle 0.25-0.1mm layers

0.35 nozzle 0.2-0.075mm layers

0.3 nozzle 0.2- 0.05mm layers

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:46:22.000Z

Ok! Which .3 nozzles do you recommend for the Mini? I have never tried changing my nozzle before!

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T15:53:19.000Z

Wow! Thanks for all the detailed responses everyone! I’m sure this will all help a lot!

For those of you asking, I am printing with Colorfabb’s nGen material.

So far, I have gathered the following list of suggestions. If you have anything new or different to add, (or you disagree with one of the suggestions) please let me know!

Lower print temperature
Lower print speed
Up cooling a lot!
Change nozzle size
Check Auto-leveling procedure
Up first layer to .2mm

Again, if you have anything else to add, please let me know! I am so grateful that 3D Hubs has such a friendly supportive community

tpalagyi · 2016-06-16T16:52:57.000Z

Nozzle:

As I have just checked you should have a Hexagon all-metal hot end with 0.5 nozzle by default witch uses 3mm filament (hmm this could be a problem but hope it will work otherwise you have to make an upgrade to 1.75mm filament, so new hotend and extruder and new rolls of filaments)

So just look for a store in the US who sells this kind of nozzles, so you will need 0.3, 0.35, 0.4 nozzles for !!!3mm!!! filament (make sure its for the 3mm not for 1.75mm version).

Just googled and found this store (they have the 0.3 out of stock but have 0.35 and 0.4)

http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/hot-ends/hot-end-parts.html

T.

Snortimer · 2016-06-16T17:28:53.000Z

Well, my print wasn’t great, but it at least completed the print. I’ll put up a photo later this afternoon, but I did learn a lot!

Speed really, really matters. Faster areas have ripples. Overhangs are problematic, as is expected. I can probably drop the temperature a little more. I can probably increase cooling a bit. I’m printing in brown ABS, so cooling is a sensitive topic.

The parts that look good look REALLY good, and the rest looks messy. I’ll probably use 50-75 microns as my finest resolution, but this experiment will help me optimize my settings.

Snortimer · 2016-06-16T17:35:20.000Z

Ah, nGen. It can be a bit tricky, but can produce good results. Lulzbot is now recommending it as a beginner filament instead of HIPS (I just spoke to them at Denver Mini Maker Faire this past weekend).

I use a scrubby sponge at printing temperature to clean the nozzle, as acetone won’t clean off PLA (it does a good job with ABS, though). I’m not sure if there’s a suitable solvent for nGen.

Snortimer · 2016-06-16T17:41:35.000Z

Keep in mind that changing the nozzle with void the warranty on your extruder. That being said, they also recommend that you use a torque wrench to install the new nozzle, and do it at a specific temperature (185, IIRC).

I’d almost recommend buying a second extruder assembly, and switching the nozzle just on that one. Still, you should be able to get acceptable results with your stock nozzle.

Jackson_Moody · 2016-06-16T18:25:58.000Z

Yeah, I totally see your point. Honestly, I don’t think its worth goofing up my extruder so I could get better 50 micron prints. Because at the moment, I CAN print at 50 microns with decent results. So, while I may invest in a new nozzle in the future, I think I’m good for now…