Hello everyone
this my first post here , and I really want to get from your experience,
so guzy what do you advice me for this project, what do I need ? what kind of printing material I would use? are they expensive ? dose they last long ?
thank you a lot
cobnut
October 31, 2018, 9:39am
2
Hi @ashton_fora I’d respectfully suggest you need a lot more than “only” a shop in a good place and a full body scanner. If you’re asking the questions you’re asking, there’s a LOT of learning that needs to happen before you could realistically run a business selling a product. Essentially you’ve said, “I’m thinking of becoming a carpenter, what sort of wood should I use and how do chisels and saws work?”.
I’d think really hard about spending $25k on the printing part of this project, when that seems to be the area in which you have least experience.
Personally, if you’ve got $25k available, and do have experience with 3D modelling, I’d recommend starting with the scanning side, rather than initially offering the full print service. Getting a good scan is a skill in itself, usually requiring varying amounts of post-processing of the scan and it sounds like you’re much better prepared for that. Customers can take the digital file you produce and find another company to do the actual printing (you may even be able to find someone local who you can partner with for special rates). Over time, you can consider expanding into the printing side as well, once you’ve had a chance to research and experiment, perhaps using much cheaper machines to improve your knowledge of 3D printing in general.
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Hi @cobnut thank you for your reply
cobnut
October 31, 2018, 10:52am
4
Hi @ashton_fora it’s good you’ve planned for a training period, you’ll certainly need it, both 3D printing and scanning are far from “push button” operation yet.
One of the reasons I’d suggest scanning only first is that while a knowledge of 3D modelling software is useful for 3D printing, it’s really essential for 3D scanning, given the likely clean-up that’ll be necessary post-scan. If you’ve knowledge of 3D modelling software you’ll probably be “up to speed” much more quickly on the scanning side than you will the printing, and therefore able to offer (paid) services more quickly. This means you’ll have a much reduced period of having a large capital outlay with no income.
I’d also suggest you’d probably find it easier to sell the scanner for a reasonable return than you will the printer, so it’ll be a slightly safer exercise.
I’d probably suggest considering a cheaper 3D printer initially, probably even one that can’t handle full-colour printing. While a cheaper FDM (or even SLA) printer will be quite different from the Projet, practice with one will probably help identify where the models themselves have problems and where you can improve your scanning and post-processing.
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Hi @cobnut thank you for your concerns I really needed to talk to someone,
cobnut
October 31, 2018, 11:42am
6
HI @ashton_fora I was originally a 3D modeller, although I suspect I started a while before you… I was using what was then 3D Studio R2.5 (I think) for DOS back in the mid-1990s, Lightwave and the early versions of Softimage. Before 3DS I used a DOS program that rendered entirely from scripts, but I can’t remember what it was called.
Having a good grasp of 3D modelling definitely helps 3D printing. It’s easier to “think in 3D” and easier to use “helper” software such as Meshmixer, etc., but, as I said, it’ll be almost essential for 3D scanning.
If you’re getting work designing characters then it’ll be tempting to go for the printer first, but $25k is a LOT of money and the ongoing costs of materials is probably going to be scary. I’d really suggest just getting something like a Prusa i3 Mk3, or if you do want to spend a little more, an Ultimaker 3 or Sigma R17, just to get to know more about 3D printing in general before you leap up to a pro machine like the 680.
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I agree with Mr. Cob. The printer is the least of your worries. 3D scanning is going to be your problem.
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A projet 660 is not a cheap machine to run. I have a zcorp 450 (essentially the same machine as the projet 460). To give you an idea of the costs (in £ as i’m based in the UK),
Powder - The official powder for these machines costs around £1400 for 14kg. 14kg just about fills up my machine. The 660 will have a bigger hopper as it’s a bigger machine
Binder - Binder cartridges are in the order of £150 give or take
Colour - my machine uses around £50 of print heads at a time but the 660 uses individual cartridges for each colour. I’d expect each one to run to £100 plus a go.
So that’s around 2 grand in consumables before you have got yourself started. Now these machines aren’t easy to run either and you are either going to have to maintain it yourself or pay a fortune for a service contract with 3D systems (easily tens of thousands a year). Spare parts are eye wateringly expensive. Typically parts that go are the print heads, the pogo cards that these connect into and the ribbon cable that connects the print head to the machine. Again a few hundred a go at least.
Yes you can get aftermarket materials but i really wouldn’t recommend it. I tried out some aftermarket powder and binder and it was just terrible.
If you want another full colour machine that is cheaper to run (and generally cheaper to get a hold of second hand) then look at an Mcor iris. Another machine I have in my stock and run for full colour prints. It prints using copier paper rather than powder so the final models are more rugged and the materials overall are cheaper.
thank you @PlastiPrint3D I checked out the Mcor iris its really interesting and very cheap for the raw material, but I see the powder machine are more realistic and stronger, so in future it can be extra machine in my shop for costumer who wont spend a lot of money on their 3D model.
I can say categorically that the powder models are both weaker and have poorer colour. The paper based models are far stronger and have more vivid colour. Where the paper technology falls down is that it is difficult to remove the paper from internal voids without damaging the model whereas the powder can be blown out.
guyz your really making it easer for me now and i start to think to start small
thank you
It sounds like a good 3D scanning package but I have no experience of these so can’t help you further there. My advice would be to ask to see it running. Do a full demonstration so you understand the process in and out before you part with any cash. If you aren’t happy with anything then walk away.
You are going to be scanning and printing a lot of people before you make back that kind of investment.
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thank you everybody, for everything, you made it clear to me and I end up to not get the risk to open the shop with all money that I have I saved, I will try to get it out of my mind, maybe I will do something more logical for example like an engineering office since I am electrical and electronic engineer originally , I won’t let my hobby effect my future.
thank you guyz and sorry if I were asking so much
cobnut
November 1, 2018, 9:51am
14
@ashton_fora you don’t have to give up entirely, just think smaller for now, start somewhere nearer the bottom than trying to start near the top, and keep the bulk of your savings in reserve.
For example, you could get a good hand-held scanner capable of scanning quite large objects (though probably not suitable for full body) and an SLA printer like the Formlabs Form 2. You could then offer broken part replacement services for cars - scan the broken part and use your 3D modelling skills to “repair” the model, then print it in an appropriate material. You could try some cosplay work, scanning parts of customer bodies to make close-fitting flexible costume elements.
The techniques for fixing 3D scans will be pretty much the same big or small, so you could learn the tricks, and get a better understanding of where to go next, as well as making some money at the same time.
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jenszzt
November 10, 2018, 2:34pm
15
Hello,
hi @jenszzt
Are you making the powder and binder your self ? How? I didn’t get it
jenszzt
November 11, 2018, 6:45pm
17
There are many recipes on the net. You can experiment a lot.
Cannot advise you about the shop but I have a good 3D scanner for you. Recently, I came across Full Human Body 3D Scanner on ‘3D Printers Online Store’ and I found the price too to be absolutely reasonable. You can check the details of the same through this link. https://www.3dprintersonlinestore.com/full-human-body-3d-scanner
jenszzt
November 30, 2018, 8:12am
19
Thanks for the information
I used to work for a company that did this exactly, www.doob3d.com where I ran their factory consisting of several 660pro machines, if you have any questions PM me but I’ll just say here that I think you’re making the prudent decision; there is a lot more to this than meets they eye.
